Guido Rossi's "phantom" P-38

[indy007]

Just read the story in P-38: Fork Tailed Devils. Great story, had to dig it up online for those of you who haven't been fortunate enough to read this book yet.

The story in the book is more detailed, but this is still a great summary of it.

link

One of the more interesting stories in the MTO was of the phantom P-38, which was causing trouble for many crippled bombers. Beginning on June 4, 1943, a crippled bomber was coming back from a mission against the island of Pantelleria. The crew was considering bailing out of their bomber when they spotted a P-38 coming closer. They immediately relaxed knowing it was coming to their aid. The crew continued to dump extra weight from the aircraft, including the guns and ammunition. Before the crew realized what happened, the P-38 erupted in gunfire and destroyed the B-17. The only survivor was the pilot, Lt. Harold Fisher. Fisher was rescued and was the target of fury from the fighter pilots by suggesting it was a friendly P-38 that shot them down.

Several weeks before Lt. Fisher's ordeal, a P-38 pilot was low on fuel and was lost. He actually made an emergency landing just outside of Sardinia. The pilot was captured before he was able to destroy his aircraft. Italian pilot, Lt. Guido Rossi came up with the idea of using this P-38 against the American bombers. Rossi's strategy was to wait until the bombers made their attacks. Rossi would then take off and scout around for stragglers. He actually used this technique to shoot down several bombers. Until Lt. Fisher, no other crews survived to tell of the P-38 shooting them down. The American commanders were under the assumption that these missing bombers just did not make it back just as many before them. Nobody thought a friendly aircraft was the cause.

After Fisher told his story, bombers crews were alerted to look for a lone P-38, which was posing as a friendly. Fisher came up with the idea of using a decoy B-17 to attract Rossi. Fisher's idea was approved and he took off in the experimental YB-40 gunship. This was simply a modified B-17, which had more armor and guns. He flew several missions lagging behind the rest of the formations, but never encountered Rossi. Intelligence was being gathered and the Allies finally learned the identity of the pilot. They also learned that his wife was living in Allied occupied Constantine. An artist actually used a picture of his wife to paint a nose art picture on Fisher's bomber, and included her name, Gina. On August 31, a B-17 raid struck Pisa. Fisher was flying among the bombers, and was actually damaged by enemy fighters. He recovered at a low altitude and had to feather two engines. Before lone, a lone P-38 was approaching and the crew was on high alert. Rossi, using very good English, contacted Fisher, just as he did on previous occasions. Rossi immediately noticed the nose art on the aircraft and spoke with Fisher. Fisher was still uncertain the pilot was Rossi and was chatting with Rossi normally. Fisher decided to bait this pilot to see if it was Rossi or not, and began talking about Gine and her location in Constantine. When Fisher was describing intimate details of their "relationship", Rossi lost his cool. He peeled off and began his attack. Fisher ordered all guns to open up on this P-38, and Rossi had to peel off trailing smoke. Rossi intended to ram the bomber, but began breaking up and could not maintain flight. He was able to ditch in the water and survived. Rossi was later picked up and taken prisoner. Fisher was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross medal for his efforts. Fisher would survive the war, but was killed in a transport accident during the Berlin Airlift. Incidentally, Rossi was one of the mourners at his funeral.

[Guppy35]

Seems like I recall this being one of Martin Caiden's better embellishments of a story.  Can't recall the exact details.  For whatever reason I don't believe that story is accurate.

Where's Widewing when we need him.  

Dan/CorkyJr

[Scherf]

Capt Virgil Hilts can help on this one too.

[hogenbor]

Sounds too good to be true.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Scherf
Capt Virgil Hilts can help on this one too.

Actually, no, I can't. I remember the basic story, there WAS a captured P-38 being used to attack Allied bombers. I think what I heard was a lack of spare parts eventually grounded it.

[Pongo]

Its true, it happens to be the origin of the song "Gina" by Bobby Goldsburough.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Actually, no, I can't. I remember the basic story, there WAS a captured P-38 being used to attack Allied bombers. I think what I heard was a lack of spare parts eventually grounded it.

That seems to be what I recall too.  Some digging seems to have pointed to a Col. Tondi as the Pilot and it was a P38G with possibly a B24 kill to it's credit along with a B17 kill before it was no longer operational.  Apparently the Italian fuel didn't agree with the 38 either.

Dan/CorkyJr

[SunTracker]

That story is bogus.  The P-38 would have to be flying in very close formation with the B-17 in order to see the nose art.  Why would the P-38 be flying in close formation and in front of the bomber?  

Also, how would the bomber and P-38 communicate?  Did bombers and fighters use the same frequencies all the time?

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by SunTracker
That story is bogus.  The P-38 would have to be flying in very close formation with the B-17 in order to see the nose art.  Why would the P-38 be flying in close formation and in front of the bomber?  

Also, how would the bomber and P-38 communicate?  Did bombers and fighters use the same frequencies all the time?

I am so gald that your qualification as a historical expert allow you to refute any story point blank.  

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by SunTracker
That story is bogus.  The P-38 would have to be flying in very close formation with the B-17 in order to see the nose art.  Why would the P-38 be flying in close formation and in front of the bomber?  

Also, how would the bomber and P-38 communicate?  Did bombers and fighters use the same frequencies all the time?

Might have to track down these 38 drivers and ask em

They look like they're tucked in close

Dan/CorkyJr

[Ack-Ack]

Wasn't this the P-38 that was captured when the pilot supposedly defected to the Axis side?



ack-ack

[SunTracker]

Yes, why would an enemy pilot flying a P-38 tuck in so close to his intended target, especially in a position where the bomber could fire on him, but he couldnt fire on the bomber?

Because it makes a good story.  Enraged at the picture of his wife on the B-17s nose, the fiery Italian presses his attack!  But in his passion, he is shot down, but survives.  But wait, theres more!  The pilot of the bomber later dies in a cargo plane accident, and the two former enemies meet one last time.

Hogwash.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Wasn't this the P-38 that was captured when the pilot supposedly defected to the Axis side?



ack-ack

Yer thinking of that guy Monti, who defected with an F5 version of the 38.  It was a recce bird not a fighter version.

Dan/CorkyJr

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by SunTracker
Yes, why would an enemy pilot flying a P-38 tuck in so close to his intended target, especially in a position where the bomber could fire on him, but he couldnt fire on the bomber?

Because it makes a good story.  Enraged at the picture of his wife on the B-17s nose, the fiery Italian presses his attack!  But in his passion, he is shot down, but survives.  But wait, theres more!  The pilot of the bomber later dies in a cargo plane accident, and the two former enemies meet one last time.

Hogwash.

I believe the story is hogwash, but I do recall in Caiden's book it's presented as the Italian pilot in the American marked 38 had an engine feathered and pulled up near the bomber for protection.

That certainly happened.  Including a well known image of a damaged 38 that tucked in with the bombers.  Those are 15th AF B17s btw, based in Italy.

Dan/CorkyJr

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Yer thinking of that guy Monti, who defected with an F5 version of the 38.  It was a recce bird not a fighter version.

Dan/CorkyJr

Whatever happened to him after the war?  Was he put on trial for desertion and treason?


ack-ack