Author Topic: What is corner velocity for P47D11? (Read 3678 times)

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2005, 02:46:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by pellik

The d11 is a stall fighter, maintaining some fast flat turn isn't going to do you squat good.

A stall fighter against what planes?

I would say it is more fit for energy or BnZ type of flying.......only those you wish to use it as a stall fighter are prob capable of deploying and taking advantage of its flaps.

TC

Cobra412 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2005, 02:59:58 PM »

Why do you guys have to come rip on him for asking this question? Does it really matter that much to you guys why he wants to know it? Or do you guys enjoy strutting around with your huge egos putting down anyone else who may be inferior to you whenever you get the chance?

It's pretty sad when the vets of this game consistantly belittle newer players. It seems unless your part of the good ole boys club here you don't mean watermelon and neither does your opinions. If it weren't for the fact there isn't another game out there that is even comparable to this one alot of people who are treated like this would leave. That way the vets could pat each others backs and tell war stories about how great they are.

Look at me mom I can belittle the newer players. I've trained a bunch of people and that makes up for me being a total salamander to the rest of the new guys on a daily basis.

Regardless of how good some of you may be your still arses when it comes down to the fine print.

Eagler · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:06:56 PM »

isn't it by feel/sound?

who looks at the speedometer in the middle of a close fight.. ya just keep tapping the up/down flap buttons as needed by feel/sound

dtango · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:07:55 PM »

The Instantaneous turn performance envelope has bearing beyond a flat turn. A way this could be applied is flying a nose-low spiral dive at an angle that allows you to maintain 235 mph IAS and a 6g turn at the same time for maximum turn performance in a spiral dive.

Knowing this you might apply it for a variety of cases including if you in a D-11 were bounced by a higher alt & faster bogey, suck him into a nose-low manuever, use his extra speed against him while you maximize your turn performance to most efficiently gain angles to turn the tables or get angular separation.

At any rate I don't see where knowing corner velocity is useless... far from it IMHO. It's an important data point to help someone understand the bounds of the performance envelope of an aircraft. As Col. John Boyd postulated it's all about decision making and getting inside your opponents decision loop. It's an input point for developing a2a decision-making and tactics to maximize your performance in a plane.

Regarding flaps, the "lift limit" (left hand side) of the curve would move over slightly to the left with each successive notch of flaps.

I haven't tested it in the P-47D-11 but from experience you could probably still achieve velocities to acheive 6g's in a turn up to 1-2 notches of flaps which would further increase your corner turn performance (guessing in the ~215-225 mph range). Over 1-2 notches the autoretract would kick in as you exceeded the velocities for a flap setting.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:16:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Cobra412
Why do you guys have to come rip on him for asking this question? Does it really matter that much to you guys why he wants to know it? Or do you guys enjoy strutting around with your huge egos putting down anyone else who may be inferior to you whenever you get the chance?

It's pretty sad when the vets of this game consistantly belittle newer players. It seems unless your part of the good ole boys club here you don't mean watermelon and neither does your opinions. If it weren't for the fact there isn't another game out there that is even comparable to this one alot of people who are treated like this would leave. That way the vets could pat each others backs and tell war stories about how great they are.

Look at me mom I can belittle the newer players. I've trained a bunch of people and that makes up for me being a total salamander to the rest of the new guys on a daily basis.

Regardless of how good some of you may be your still arses when it comes down to the fine print.

Cobra, whom was you refering to? I see no where I belittled anyone. or did you mean to put "some of" in where you said "why do you guys"?

Tango,
good explanation of why one would want to know the corner velocity etc.....

bustr · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:36:22 PM »

Cobra,

To be honest we are just ribbing him because being where he is describing is meat and potatoes to us. We don't really give much of a thought to our speed as much as WEP, flaps and being able to see the con. Instantanious corner speed in our world is more for that woops gotcha on LA7's and spits.

Anyone who's reached the point with one of these over sized school bus's that's asking these questions from placing his ketser on the line is OK by me......

Cobra412 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:39:54 PM »

TC I wasn't referring to you. Those who act this way know who I'm talking about.

It really doesn't matter why Sun wanted to know this and frankly it's none of their business if they couldn't answer the question. They either have answer to the question and can assist or they can move along and keep their "I'm better than you" egos to themselves. They might as well have spit in his face. Because they are better and seem to know it all no one else has any right to ask a question and try something new. They are the masters here and only they know how to effectively use an aircraft in AH.

YUCCA · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:52:19 PM »

Cobra is just randomly flaming at this trhead for no particular reason. Just like a woman who's been mad all day and looking for any little excuse to blow up.

bustr · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2005, 03:54:34 PM »

Oh well YUCCA shades of Storch..........

dtango · « **Reply #24 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:24:01 PM »

C'mon fellas

. Always fun flying against you 56th FG guys.

Cobra is pointing out that a few of you could have been a little bit more helpful vs. the sardonic "why do you even care to know because it's so silly?" response to SunTracker's question.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

RightF00T · « **Reply #25 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:43:28 PM »

I dont see any belittling or flaming. I think the point me and YUCCA getting at, as some have stated that knowing the corner velocity really wont help you when you're down and dirty. There are so many dynamic points where the Jug can gain the advantage, it would be pointless to rely on one speed to get a kill. If you set certain limits and stick by them, you wont know what to do when the enemy forces you beyond them.

Lazerr · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:49:41 PM »

Wow... Yucca it is really nice to know that someone sees women exactly as I do.

It really relates to some woman problems I've been having as of late..

dtango · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:59:37 PM »

Hiya lefty:

I agree that there are many dynamic points to consider to gain advantage. Knowing corner velocity is about building knowledge of one of the many dynamic points to consider.

I disagree that knowing corner velocity is pointless in an angles fight. Certainly if you're in a sustained turn fight below corner speed it means squat but the "down & dirty" setup is just one of many scenarios.

I don't see where knowing corner velocity is about setting any type of limits of relying on "one" speed to get the kill.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Cobra412 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 19, 2005, 05:08:45 PM »

Yucca you mean like what you did to Sun to boast your god like stature and laugh in his face? Since ofcourse you know it all and there's absolutely no reason for anyone else to ever ask such a meaningless and useless question?

That's probably why they never bother to publish such information in the pilots -1 manuals. That's also probably why Robert Shaw didn't take the time to cover such information in his book. God forbid if a person who's actually been trained in ACM would write such bogus and useless information. I paid money for this crap?

But hey the all knowing Yucca says it's useless information so it must be. Hail to the almighty Yucca and his followers.

YUCCA · « **Reply #29 on:** April 19, 2005, 05:25:22 PM »

I simply asked a question and you want to make it look like im insulting someone. I "gloated my god like figure" i dont see where i did that. And i never said it was useless. You just futher my point, quit acting like a damned woman.