Author Topic: in his own words  (Read 1887 times)

Offline Lizking

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in his own words
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2005, 10:42:11 AM »
I can get behind that!

Offline slimm50

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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2005, 10:52:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
true.  but is it really in our best interests to send someone who publicly holds contempt for the interests of others?

james baker.  now he would have made a great un ambassador.

:mad: ok....i agree with you there. but just this once...damnit.





















:D

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2005, 11:01:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
i tend to see the united nations as something akin to a poorly developed neighborhood association with the us at this point acting the part of that bossy little ahole that has to have its way.


I do not belong to any home owners assoication so I really am not familiar with how the dues are paid, but I am betting that each homeowner pays the same amount.  As long as we are required to pay 23 percent of the budget and 27 percent of the peacekeeping budget we should be able to have a larger say in how its used.  Like our own taxes most of us do not like their money wasted.  If it was a one country one vote system with all members paying the same cost some of us might have a different view.  

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i feel that it is absolutley neccessary to push for more democratic reform in the UN.

the idea of permanent members of a security council makes little sense in my democratic mind.  

i think that representatives should be elected not appointed and i think that it should have a better sense of checks and balances.

a few thoughts to start.


That is a reform that could never ever happen and to get anything close to what you describe a complete dismantle/rebuild would be needed.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2005, 11:21:36 AM »
So I guess we all agree that Bolton is a loon and Bush screwed the pooch by nominating him.

Thanks.

Offline JB88

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« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2005, 11:32:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
I do not belong to any home owners assoication so I really am not familiar with how the dues are paid, but I am betting that each homeowner pays the same amount.  As long as we are required to pay 23 percent of the budget and 27 percent of the peacekeeping budget we should be able to have a larger say in how its used.  Like our own taxes most of us do not like their money wasted.  If it was a one country one vote system with all members paying the same cost some of us might have a different view.  


 

That is a reform that could never ever happen and to get anything close to what you describe a complete dismantle/rebuild would be needed.


true.  but then again, i am a flat tax guy.  23 of anything is too much, but no, based upon the spirit of the organization at its foundation...or at least its reasons for being, i dont agree that our interests should be better represented.  i think that goes against everything that the un stands for.  we are rich people, if we can afford a 280+ billion dollar oil grab, i think we can fund an organization with fairness in mind.  just my opinion.

you are correct, it aint happenin anytime soon.  but it is an important forum and i dont think that just letting it go to seed is going to help things along either.
this thread is doomed.
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2005, 11:44:59 AM »
lol slimm.

its okay to agree with me on that...i said james baker.  if my theory is correct a little tear appeared in your eye as you snapped to attention and a salute at the mere mention of the name.

now that boy was what i call a power broker.

got it done.

:)
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Offline Sabre

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« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2005, 02:54:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
So I guess we all agree that Bolton is a loon and Bush screwed the pooch by nominating him.

Thanks.


Okay, I'm getting into this discussion a little late, but here goes.  MT, why Bolton a loon?  So far, all the accusations against him have been essentially unsubstantiated.  If accusations is all it takes to get someone disqualified for office, none of our current leaders would likely be in office today, nor would the last batch, or the one before that.  Other than the fact Bolton is sceptical of the UN's ability to operate effectively in its current state (just the  kind of scepticism that organization needs at this point), what has he done to disqualify him?  Here's an excerpt from an article in the National Review I found particularly pertenant...

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Why do we bother to have extraordinarily expensive, high-profile investigative panels like the 9/11 Commission and the Silberman-Robb Commission if we are going to get hysterical over episodes that actually confirm their findings? The 9/11 Commission said the intelligence community failed the nation prior to the attacks because of risk-aversion and groupthink — the very traits that ooze from Westermann's posturing with Bolton. Silberman-Robb was even more blunt:

The intelligence community needs to be pushed. It will not do its best unless it is pressed by policy-makers — sometimes to the point of discomfort. Analysts must be pressed to explain how much they don't know; the collection agencies must be pressed to explain why they don't have better information on key topics. While policy-makers must be prepared to credit intelligence that doesn't fit their preferences, no important intelligence assessment should be accepted without sharp questioning that forces the community to explain exactly how it came to that assessment and what alternatives might also be true. This is not "politicization"; it is a necessary part of the intelligence process.

The Times story mentioned here indicates that Bolton was doing precisely what policymakers ought to be doing. For that, his critics would hold him unfit. What does that say about his critics? And what, more critically, does it say about the prospects of improving the performance of American intelligence if, when dysfunction is pitted against challenge, dysfunction wins.


Westermann, by the way, is the intel guy who's whining about big, bad, Bolton's treatment of him.  Yet, all Bolton did was ask the hard questions of Westermann and others in the intel community that the 9/11 and Silberman-Robb Commissions said needed to be asked.  To top it off, the emails Westermann is complaining "damaged his ability to operate effectively" (whine-speak for, "he hurt my feelings") were not written by Bolton, but a member of his staff.  Should Clinton have been ousted for snapping at people?  Should Hillary?  Were they not renowned for their snappish treatment of subordinates?  What about John McCain's snapping at Rumsfeld during the senate hearings on Abu Grabe?

Bolton is exactly the right man for the job of holding the UN's feet to the fire.  He'll look at it with a critical eye, which is what's most needed right now, if it is to have any chance of becoming credible in the world today.  As for his "Aleged" (with a capital "A") pressuring of the intelligence community in this country, that is something long overdue, wouldn't you say?  Finally, the biggest mistake Bush could make right now is to back away from Bolton, from a politcal standpoint.  Unless someone can show that Bolton has done something illegal, or at least immoral, in one or more of the official capacities he's held up to now, there is no grounds for denying him an up or down vote in the full senate.
Sabre
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Offline Habu

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« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2005, 02:57:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
hey nuke.  

when you touch yourself while reading my posts...do you envision me naked or clothed?

 


Actually I picture you as slightly overweight with funny eyes and a big grin on your face and wearing a hockey helmut.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2005, 03:45:18 PM »
Quote
Unless someone can show that Bolton has done something illegal, or at least immoral, in one or more of the official capacities he's held up to now, there is no grounds for denying him an up or down vote in the full senate.


So .... let me get this straight...

If Bush selects a nominee.... and he doesn't have a felony record (ok, exaggeration but bear with me here) then the Senate HAS to confirm whether or not they feel he is qualified?

Have I got it?

Buahahahhahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahaha!

Offline JB88

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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2005, 03:45:22 PM »
so close.  but its not a grin, its my handlebar mustache.
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Offline Torque

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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2005, 03:50:11 PM »
The UN functions the way it does cuz the powers to be prefer it that way. If Bolton held his current employer's feet to the fire, would he still be considered the right man for the job?

The Civil Service, the only place were being inept is an asset when it comes to a promotion.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2005, 04:01:43 PM »
MT, you're succumbing to Zulu7 disease.

What he said was

Quote
there is no grounds for denying him an up or down vote in the full senate.


So you don't have it straight but only because you did not read what he wrote.

The Senate doesn't have to confirm him; they can vote him down.

What Sabre said is that he's entitled to a vote in the Senate. That's all.

I happen to agree. If the Senators don't want him, I'm sure the full vote in the Senate will fail.

No big deal.

It's the same with the judges. Just "call the question" and get it over with; VOTE and be done with it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2005, 04:07:45 PM »
OK, that was just mean!

You are right I miss read his post. However, the Dems aren't prohibiting Bolton from a Senate vote, The Republicans have a 10-8 majority in the committee.

And I don't believe the committee has a lower critereon than the Senate as a whole would have for this nomination.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2005, 04:10:15 PM »
Nonetheless, all this doofing around is just stalling the business of the Senate.

Let the committees do the vetting to eliminate the OBVIOUS non-starters. Then just put it to a vote and GET IT OVER WITH.

I hate the "filibuster" mentality that is paralysing our government.

Put Bolton up for a vote. If he gets hammered and tossed out, maybe the Bush admin will be a bit more particular with the next guy.

Same for the judges. VOTE. Let's DO IT.

Time to get moving.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2005, 04:12:29 PM »
Nobody is filibustering Bolton. He just can't get the votes of his own party.