The new cockpit framing

[Pongo]

I think the atmosphere is great, I think the view restrictions are overdone.

[Nath_____]

Originally posted by MANDO

I would add that current 190F8 and D9 have lost the bubble canopy, internally both have the same vertical space as A8 and A5. So, even the advantage of better over the nose visibitily raising the head is gone.

Mando,

I have noticed this also.  Why is the up head movement the same on the D9 and F8 as the A8/A5?  There should be significantly higher head movement upwards because of the bubble canopy on the D9/F8.

[Zwerg]

Ty TDeacon

Your description of the problem gives us the full perspective.
It includes both the objective position (from outside) and the subjective position (from inside).

For me the subjective position is much more important for a satisfying game experience.

[Crumpp]

I'd have to agree with this. and honestly I find it hard to beleive that the visability out of the 190s were THAT bad.

I'll repost these RAE findings so that no misconceptions arise.  Facts are both the sighting view and the search view in the FW-190 were among the best in any WWII fighter.

Sighting View:



Search View:



I personally like the direction the new cockpits are taking.  It is the mix of the new cockpit models and the old cockpit models which really accents things and does not "simulate" the advantages.  When the other aircraft are brought up to the new standards things should even out somewhat.

To nitpick:

Looking at the FW-190's cockpit framing, I think the support bars are too far forward in HTC's model and not high enough.  The canopy frame itself looks slightly too thick.  The armoured glass supports are correct in their size.  

One thing I noticed from our restoration of "Black 3" is the supports are tapered.  They are almost triangular with the apex tapered toward the pilot.  If you stand outside the cockpit and look they are much thicker than the appear from the pilots perspective.  In the other thread you can see this if you look closely by the throttle.

When "Black 3's" cockpit is complete we will be filming it from the pilots head position in a 360 degree panaromic view with the canopy closed.  The film will be available to our membership only and posted on the members section of the website.  Work is almost complete on the cockpit.  I will see about getting Pyro a copy of the film.

BTW We should be thanking HTC.  Despite the fact some details are wrong, it is obvious they put some time and effort in attempting to get things right.

All the best,

Crumpp

[Nath_____]

Crump--

I must have missed something. Who is "we" and what is Black 3?  A 190D9? A8?  You're restoring one?  If so, where?

Thanks for any further info.

[TDeacon]

Crumpp,

I think everyone appreciates the effort HTC has put into game improvements, their overall responsiveness, etc.  I certainly do.  As I said in a thread last year, I am paying $15. per month for something I paid $6. per hour for back around 1990 in AW.  And of course AH is an order of magnitude better than AW was.  

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't politely make suggestions for improvements.  

I should probably start another thread requesting a speed-up of the "move" commands.  That would probably help some.

[MOSQ]

The new cockpits are starting to make me long for an I-16!

[Crumpp]

Who is "we" and what is Black 3? A 190D9? A8? You're restoring one? If so, where?

Thanks for your interest!

"We" is the "White 1 Foundation".  A non profit museum and warbird restoration facility specializing in the FW-190.

http://www.white1foundation.org/index.htm

I am the Membership Director.

"Black 3" is an FW-190A3 we are restoring to static display for a museum in Europe.  The Foundation owns several FW-190's with our flagship being "Weisse Eins" from JG5 "Eismeer".  We are restoring "White 1" to authentic flying condition and will fly her complete with an original BMW 801 motor.

http://www.white1foundation.org/mission_statement.htm

I encourage you to visit the museum, our website, and gift shop.  Being a non-profit organization means we survive on donations and sponsors.  Donations are fully tax deductible.  If you are really interested in the FW-190 and the history of the air war, join the membership.  We have the largest collection of original Luftwaffe documentation on the FW-190 in private hands.  In our members section we share this documentation with the membership thru articles in the newsletter. Electronic copies of the documents referenced are made available for the members to examine.  Donate, Please!  We could use the help, one flight worthy blade on the prop of White 1 cost's 8000 USD.  The entire prop is 50,000 dollars just to give you and idea of the expense.  

 http://www.white1foundation.org/sponsors.htm

All the best,

Crumpp

[Nath_____]

That's awesome.  This will be the only air-worthy original Fw 190.  I wonder where it will be flown?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Crumpp

Looking at the FW-190's cockpit framing, I think the support bars are too far forward in HTC's model and not high enough.

 One thing I noticed from our restoration of "Black 3" is the supports are tapered. They are almost triangular with the apex tapered toward the pilot. If you stand outside the cockpit and look they are much thicker than the appear from the pilots perspective. In the other thread you can see this if you look closely by the throttle

Crumpp

Thats basically what I was getting at isnt it?

[Kweassa]

Kweassa, Does your satisfaction with the framing apply to my category (1), (2), or both?

 Well, in my case, I basically have no problems in recognizing that 2D depiction of 3D surfaces, is at any rate, always gonna have some kind of problem no matter how well it's done.

 As long as the cockpits are scheduled to be visually upgraded, a lot of the flimsy or dinky lookin' stuff we used to see in AH1 is bound to be changed, and many for the worse. But I don't necessarily think AH1 cockpit views were more or less 'correct' than the other. AH1 cockpits did offer better visibility, but it was at a price of visually incorrect and/or flimsily modelled cockpit details.

 So given the circumstances, I don't doubt that HTC probably did whatever they could, to increase as much visibility as possible, at the same time trying to maintain the correct 'look' of it all.

 Perhaps we're all just too much used to seeing everything so easily. We often have head postions that are impossible...positions that pop out of the windshield... we also have a panoramic 6view to check both sides of the plane at the same time.. and etc etc..  Even a little change for the worse just seems 'unacceptable' to many.

 But in my case, I've learned some time ago that the word 'unacceptable' is a really really powerful word, and should not be used without hesitation.

[Schaden]

It's ridiculous that we can have 180 degree rear view at the same time as having to put up with "correct" front views - btw I have yet to see anyone other than the management put forward the view that the current front views are correct.

The struts and frames look as if they are viewed from outside the cockpit looking forward - as many have commented - and not as if your pov is from within the cockpit.

The 190 forward view needs to be changed and the same mistakes should not be carried over to other "redone" a/c.

[CHECKERS]

Originally posted by MANDO
Pongo, it is not a matter of how good the frontal view is when you have an eye at the gunsight. It is about the overal lack of visibility that makes it almost impossible to track enemy planes when turning.

I would add that current 190F8 and D9 have lost the bubble canopy, internally both have the same vertical space as A8 and A5. So, even the advantage of better over the nose visibitily raising the head is gone.

  Amen !!!

CHECKERS

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by TDeacon

I should probably start another thread requesting a speed-up of the "move" commands.  That would probably help some.

I second that. I use this all the time and speeding it up will help a lot.

[scott123]

I like the new cockpits & the 190 a5 is my favourite luftwffe plane,it still is!;)