Originally posted by wrag
Hmmm......
There are some that argue there is NO rapture, there will be NO rapture, there are NO scriptures that speak of the rapture.
The claim is the person that originally came up with the idea of a rapture was ill as in mentally.
Further there is a warning contained within the scriptures that one should NOT seek to escape via the air.
That the rapture shall be, or is, a tool to be used by the anti-christ.
That nowhere within scripture is anything found to support the rapture theory.
That the reference to clouds refers to the number of people reponding rather then the actual location of those people.
You're main point is right ONLY in that the word "rapture" is not used. Jesus himself said that "the day of the Lord" would be like this:
Luke 17: 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”What would it be like?
I Thessalonians 4:15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. And that day will come suddenly:
I Thessalonians 5:1 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.This day does not happen after everyone is dead -- some will be alive when he comes back:
I corinthians 15: 50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, (in context with earlier phrases, he's referring to death, not slumber);
but we will all be changed– 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 55“Where, O death, is your victory? I am not a theologian, but I am a believer. The quotes I pulled up quickly here show that the Bible DOES provide evidence for belief in a rapture, that believers WILL be taken in the midst of their daily activities, that Jesus WILL meet his people in the air (whether the clouds are people or water vapor seems irrelevant to me). Jesus does warn his people not to run all over chasing reports of his return -- because, well, the real event is supposed to be very hard to miss.
The antichrist rapture thing is kinda hard for me to address, because I jsut dont get how someone could pull that out. There are passages in revelation that talk about the Great Lie from the antichrist, and I suppose that if you were a writer who didnt believe the rapture were true you might take a stab at calling the rapture that Lie.....
And, well, the mentally ill guy contributing to a major theologic discussion sounds a bit like an atheist's dream urban legend, wouldn't you say?
There are scholars who take varying views about the details of all this. Some discussion centers on the timing of the taking up, whether it comes before, during, or after the last great troubles (or tribulation); some believe these passages refer to the time just before the final judgement. But, unless you want to make up doctrine apart from what the Bible actually says, you have to account for the above ideas.
Again, don't take this kind of controversy as a sign of internal conflict or contradiction in scriptures. The entire theme of God's message to humans -- the Bible -- is His continual efforts at making a relationship with we difficult, fractious, self serving beings. Prophetic revealings in scripture are not there just to give us the inside scoop; they're given to us as part of God's larger effort of helping us understand who we are and who he is. Naturally, they're not as complete or direct as a history book -- because that's not what they're in there for.
