Northern empire-theoretical discuss

[Pongo]

Originally posted by agent 009
Um no, Norway was but one of the things discussed you twit, if you'd read you'd see that the normal invasion through france was also discussed you twit. Yes I know the airfield was under construction on Guadalcanal, but it still has no relevant comparison to the Channel you twit.

Channel has nothing to do with it.
You were theorizing a german invasion from germany. Without taking france or the low countries.

Thats a long way but wheat. Way out side of air cover and a very long flight for your JU52s.

[Pongo]

I allready tried to point out palm sunday to him pages ago.
100 ju52 take off, 40 return. Having not made it to their objective.

Agent just ignores such references.

[agent 009]

Which has no bearing or relation to a small commando force, ( requiring relatinely few planes ), which if one uses one's imagination could be done with a different craft than the JU 52.

& no I didn't theorize an attack from Germany without 1st attacking through low countries. That was inferred by someone else.

[Torque]

couldn't think of a  better way to mass slaughter the best germany had to offer, would of shaved years off the war.

[humble]

Originally posted by agent 009
Which has no bearing or relation to a small commando force, ( requiring relatinely few planes ), which if one uses one's imagination could be done with a different craft than the JU 52.

& no I didn't theorize an attack from Germany without 1st attacking through low countries. That was inferred by someone else.

OK....

So we've scrapped the "northern empire"...conceeded that an invasion from Norway (or anywhere else is beyond german capability) and are now arguing the feasibility of small commando raids by the germans.

Now JU-52's will show upon radar and small commando teams have little or no chance of causing any real damage regardless of the mechanism for insertion. Your not using your imagination...or any other part of your brain for that matter.

[agent 009]

Nope, northern empire which includes central europe -as it did in real war, plus Baltic states, during which Finland joins Germany, then Sweden joins like the Czechs did rather than fight a perhaps umwinnable war, then Norway falls. At which point one of 2 things occurs, England & France declare war, or they don't. If they don't, Germany maintains its gains in Central europe & scandinavia. Sans Iceland, which would become hot property as it was in real war. Deals with uncle Joe later.
 If they do, the most reasonable course of events as described earlier is Germany invades France, then though channel invades England, (this time with Mfp's, commando raids on radar sites & airfields), Which may or may not succeed.

[Pongo]

Originally posted by agent 009
Which has no bearing or relation to a small commando force, ( requiring relatinely few planes ), which if one uses one's imagination could be done with a different craft than the JU 52.

& no I didn't theorize an attack from Germany without 1st attacking through low countries. That was inferred by someone else.

"Germany 1st takes Austria, Czechlosovakia, Denmark, part of Poland to connect Prussia with Germany, Then Baltic states, & Scandinavia, & finally England. & calls it the northern empire.

No eastern front, no battle of France, no North African front. "


Where are Holland and Belgium mentioned there? Denmark is consdered part of scandinavia I believe so I will grant you that one.

You think 100 ju52s is some kind of huge armada? How many were you planning on taking England with? each only carries 13 troops. A squad of infantry. A Platoon needs 4 a Company 15 or so.  How many airfields are you going to attack?  you better send a battalion to each I would say 50 per airfield?.
Your strategy will be 2000 or more ju52s.

Keep in mind that only the first wave are to air drop. To hold those fields the light infantry must land, USING LARGELY THE SAME TRANSPORTS. Any attrition of the first wave will greatly reduce the chances of the second wave.

Such arrivals obviosly have no element of supprise. No matter what magic you conjour to get even a semblence of your first wave on the ground the second wave faces the RAF. They cant arrive at night because only a small % of pilots can deliver paras at night. They are going to be facing 600 or so modern fighters with Radar direction.


agent. What you propose is impossible. you included england as an afterthought in your strategy without any grasp at all of what successive invasions of Norway and England would mean.  The Germans were lucky to take Norway. Extremely lucky. The amount of luck needed to take england with a simular tactic doenst exist.

[Pongo]

oh my god.
I just read where agent is sending ONE ju52 to each RAF field.

13 men.  20% of them injured if they jump at night.

Well, Agent has pretty much evolved his northern empire to include Holland and Belguim.
So France and England let the Chezks, Holland, Belguim, Poland and Norway fall without getting involved in the war.
And then somehow.
The same german Tactic that barely worked in Norway but was quite successfull backed up by blitzkrieg in the Low countries will somehow suprise the British at some time after that, presumebly with the same troops that where used in Norway, Belguim and Holland.

He will then drop one squad of paras on each British airfield to nutralise it. And his fleet of phantom LSTs that are imune to torpedos and invisible to the 130 destoryers adn 50 submarines and 200 smaller craft and 30 Cruisers and 15 battleships and 1000 bombers that will attack them will zig zag across the channel at night and what? Take a port I guess? Why do a beach landing when Norwaw gave up thier ports so easy.

I guess it doenst matter that if the weather is so bad that no on can see the transports then the Ju52s will not find a single airfield either. But hey...england will fall in a day.


Yes Agent. If that worked Hitler would have rulled the world for sure. It is a great strategy if it can work.


My prediction though. Is that your fantasy stratagy ends ww2 in 1941 in Britians favour. But that is me.

[humble]

I still think the butterflies would work:)

[agent 009]

"(So France and England let the Chezks, Holland, Belguim, Poland and Norway fall without getting involved in the war)".

Um no, go back & read, when you've done your homework properly, then you can come back with an intelligent post. Maybe.

Surprise the British? yet another stupidity inferred exclusively by you.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by agent 009
"(So France and England let the Chezks, Holland, Belguim, Poland and Norway fall without getting involved in the war)".

Um no, go back & read, when you've done your homework properly, then you can come back with an intelligent post. Maybe.

Surprise the British? yet another stupidity inferred exclusively by you.

maybe you should try the same?

[Airhead]

I think Agent is right...look at a map of England and you'll notice it has lots of coastline, and the Limeys couldn't watch all of it.

Once on shore the Panzar divisions woulda sliced through England like a hot knife through butter.

[humble]

Originally posted by Airhead
I think Agent is right...look at a map of England and you'll notice it has lots of coastline, and the Limeys couldn't watch all of it.

Once on shore the Panzar divisions woulda sliced through England like a hot knife through butter.

Hmmm....Airhead....sounds about right:)......

1) "once on shore"....and how will you accomplish that??

2) Tanks need aircover...your aircover is restricted to a small part of england and has something like 18 minutes combat time.

3) tanks without gas dont slice very well...where is the gas coming from?

4) The vast majority of Englands coastline is not within the operational envelope of the Germany Army, Navy or Airforce.

[humble]

Originally posted by agent 009
"(So France and England let the Chezks, Holland, Belguim, Poland and Norway fall without getting involved in the war)".

Um no, go back & read, when you've done your homework properly, then you can come back with an intelligent post. Maybe.

Surprise the British? yet another stupidity inferred exclusively by you.

Hmmm...you haven't had an intelligent post yet so what are youmouthing off about?

[Pongo]

Originally posted by agent 009
"(So France and England let the Chezks, Holland, Belguim, Poland and Norway fall without getting involved in the war)".

Um no, go back & read, when you've done your homework properly, then you can come back with an intelligent post. Maybe.

Surprise the British? yet another stupidity inferred exclusively by you.

I dont think I have ever owned anyone on this BBS as bad as I have owned you.
Too bad every one else with a brain has also washed the floor with you. But thanks it was a blast.