A few religious question for catholics.

[NUKE]

Wotan, no need to keep explaining. I already acknowedged that my questions had been answered awhile back in this thread.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by NUKE
Wotan, no need to keep explaining. I already acknowedged that my questions had been answered awhile back in this thread.

What questions?

[NUKE]

The ones I asked in the first post.

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
Toad, I didn't ridicule anyones beliefs.

[/b]

No... of course not.. you just tell them they're all going to hell for what they believe. How can anyone possibly construe that as ridicule?


 

Originally posted by NUKE
What views did I post that you find lacking? You talking about my faith and beliefs?

[/b]

I'm talking about your interpretation of the Bible which I find narrowly focused and excludes parts you don't wish to talk about  but are just as important as the ones you emphasize.

In your last post, you say that you and others are showing me how I  missunderstand the bible.

[/b]

Yes, I think several have done that.

You said that I'm self interpreting it,

[/b]

What research into it's meaning do you do? You don't go to a bible-based church where every meeting a verse is examined. You have a bible study group you attend with a qualified leader?

then go on to show me YOUR interpretation.

[/b]

My interpretation? I read it. I listen to various discussions of it, some that are televised preachers, I actually go to services and pay attention, I read the book itself and I also read interpretations of the book by people who have studied it far longer than I have. My interpretation is an amalgam of all those things and more. I also suspect that I am far more motivated to get this right at this point in my life than you are at your point in life. But that's a guess.

And I can take the threads, can you? Look at your behavior in this thread. Borders on childish.

But then.... I'm not the one saying everyone else that doesn't believe the same way I do is going to hell, am I?

Still want to talk childish? That's a really childish interpretation of the Bible. It's shared by many though, so you have company. Like I said earlier, I think you're in the group that gives Christianity a bad name.

If you wish to continue in this vein, be my guest.

[NUKE]

Toad, you have no idea about how I have come to understand and form my beliefs. You have been very condensending  from the begining of the thread on page one.

You chose to belittle my understanding of the word and my faith, while presenting your understaning and belief as superior to mine.

You have discussed nothing much other than your "aborted baby" question....which you have asked and I have answered since page one.

I made a comment to Steve over lunch today that I was a little surprized at your attitude in this thread. He hadn't seen it yet. I'm still surprized.

You say my views are narrowly focused? Well, like I have said, you have been asking me the same question for 5 pages. Who's being narrowly focused? How could the focus be on anything else with your questions directly regarding one specific point?

My belief is that the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ.

Do you think someone can go to heaven while rejecting Jesus Christ?

[Steve]

That's a really childish interpretation of the Bible.

This is rediculous Toad and I believe you know this.  Who are you to tell someone their interpretation is better or worse than yours?

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
Toad, you have no idea about how I have come to understand and form my beliefs. You have been very condensending  from the begining of the thread on page one.

[/b]

But telling everyone that unless they believe and testify as you do they are going to hell is not condescending?

You chose to belittle my understanding of the word and my faith, while presenting your understaning and belief as superior to mine.

[/b]

Wrong. I presented alternative verses that highlight the fact that your stated belief on the only way to heaven is not the only route mentioned in the bible.

You choose not to discuss those, however.

What I did was try to make you think, to question your own beliefs in light the situation of innocents (abortions) and of other verses in the bible that disagree with your position.

[You have discussed nothing much other than your "aborted baby" question....which you have asked and I have answered since page one.

[/b]

You never answered it. You dodged it. You proclaim there is ONLY ONE WAY INTO HEAVEN and then you say "you don't know" if those that CANNOT follow that way can get into heaven. Couple this with the fact that the bible mentions other ways and you have a pure dodge.

I made a comment to Steve over lunch today that I was a little surprized at your attitude in this thread. He hadn't seen it yet. I'm still surprized.

[/b]

I'm not suprised at yours. You display this attitude in almost every thread you enter. And you always claim innocence. You don't ridicule, yet you call the Catholic Church a "cult".

You say my views are narrowly focused? Well, like I have said, you have been asking me the same question for 5 pages. Who's being narrowly focused?

[/b]

When you refuse to answer and dodge, I'll keep asking. You're still dodging btw. Either the way you posted is the ONLY way (Romans) or it is not. Black and white. After stating it's the ONLY way, you crawfish and say "I don't know".

How could the focus be on anything else with your questions directly regarding one specific point?

[/b]

By narrowly focused, I mean that you seem to have no awareness of other parts of the NT. Care to comment on the verses from Matthew? Please do... you haven't yet.

My belief is that the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ.

[/b]

That's pretty generic. I think just about any Christian, including the Catholics can say that.

Do you think someone can go to heaven while rejecting Jesus Christ?

I think someone can get into heaven without even ever hearing the words "Jesus Christ".

I think there's verses in the Bible that support that too.

1 Timothy 4:10: "...we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially those who believe."

See, God saves ALL MEN, including and especially those who believe.

(Acts 10:34-35 RSV) And Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him."      

Fear God and do what is right. Hmmmm Muslims certainly fear God and many of them do what is right.

Galatians 5:14 (RSV)
       For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your
       neighbor as yourself."

       Romans 13:8 (RSV)
       Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

       Romans 13:10 (RSV)
       Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Lookie there.. love thy neighbor as thyself FULFILLS the law.

That's what I mean by narrow focus. It's a big book.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Steve
This is rediculous Toad and I believe you know this.  Who are you to tell someone their interpretation is better or worse than yours?

Who is Nuke to tell Catholics they are members of a cult?

Let me guess Steve... you are another one of the "everyone else is going to hell" guys?

Or not?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Toad
Who is Nuke to tell Catholics they are members of a cult?

Let me guess Steve... you are another one of the "everyone else is going to hell" guys?

Or not?

cult:  worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings"  "a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies"
 devotion or homage to a particular person or thing."


I said that I though( my opinion) the Catholic relegion had fashioned themselves into a new cult, in a reference in  another thread when asked if I thought todays Catholic church was the same going back to the time of Jesus.

[NUKE]

Toad, you said you go to services and pay attention?  What organized religion are you partial too?

[Steve]

Let me guess Steve... you are another one of the "everyone else is going to hell" guys?

No Toad, I'm not.  I am  concerned that one person's (not necessarily mine) view is the right view and others are wrong. This means I'm concerned that my view is wrong as well.
I go on faith that my interpretaion is correct but I do not try to impose it on others nor do I hold them as heathens if they believe other than I do.

I am concerned about this because I do not want people I care about, or even good people like you to go to hell.  No, I'm not saying anyone is going to hell.  I'll not decide or judge, if that's ok w/ you.

My point to you is sort of related to all of this.  You don't really know that Nuke's interpretation is more right or wrong than yours.  So calling his views childish is..... out of line IMHO.

Theres' nothing wrong w/ believing differently than Nuke, I respect your right to worship as you see fit.

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
cult:  worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being  

Guess your in a cult too then, right?

You do worship and pay reverential homage to Jesus, a divine being?

[Toad]

Originally posted by NUKE
Toad, you said you go to services and pay attention?  What organized religion are you partial too?

At the present time I regularly attend Catholic services. I was reared in the religion but was away from it for quite a while. I haven't decided if coming back is for me yet.

I also have attended a few others locally because I'm an open minded guy. Various sects; not to impressed so far. Been to Lakewood Church in Houston and liked that quite a bit but it's a bit of a drive. Osteen is on TV though, so I've seen him both in person and in the tube.

The one that just spiked my radar was upthread the one linked by Lute. Did you check that one out? From a cursory look, it seems they are on target. I'm going to look into them for sure.

Ministries of Jesus/Henderson Hills Baptist.

See, I have this really WEIRD idea. I think there's ONE God. For all of us. I think, if I make it, I will Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists and maybe even Druids in paradise. Puzzle on that a while and maybe it'll come to you.

One God. All powerful, able to represent/manifest himself to any or all of mankind in any one or multiple ways that he might choose.

Isn't it funny that about all the major religions have the same basic tenet? One that is repeated over and over in the Bible?

All of them have some variation of love thy neighbor as thyself. One might even say they all have a variation on

Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

Coincidence? One God for all?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Toad
Guess your in a cult too then, right?

You do worship and pay reverential homage to Jesus, a divine being?

Correct.

 And when I said the I felt the Catholic religion had fashioned themselves into a whole different  cult since the time of Jesus, this is the context in which I was refering to the word:

"a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies"

Nothing wrong with the word, Toad.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Steve
My point to you is sort of related to all of this.  You don't really know that Nuke's interpretation is more right or wrong than yours.  So calling his views childish is..... out of line IMHO.

[/b]

If you can't see the inconsistency in Nuke's position, I can't help you.

I think that inconsistency is so grossly obvious that to argue his point in that manner is childish.

IMHO. Of course. Feel free to think me out of line.

Originally posted by Steve
Theres' nothing wrong w/ believing differently than Nuke, I respect your right to worship as you see fit.

There's nothing wrong with believing exactly as Nuke does. Each is free to follow his own conscience.

However, you can believe the Sun rises in the West too. I suggest that if you put that out on the board, you will draw counterarguments that point out other aspects of nature.

I would respect your right to believe that but I wouldn't think you very well versed in the natural sciences.

That's what has happened here with Nuke. I'm certainly not the only one who thinks so, either.

As I said, perhaps it will make him think the next time he starts a thread like this one. Note again that I'm neither the first or only one in this thread to assess Nuke's attempts here as either attacks on or ridicule of other religions in his usual oh-so-innocent way.