Author Topic: A few religious question for catholics.  (Read 11453 times)

Offline midnight Target

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #60 on: May 06, 2005, 08:13:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
I was raised a catholic and went to catholic school as a kid.


Someone wasn't listening during catechism classes. Hold out your hand and let me get a ruler.

Offline lazs2

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #61 on: May 06, 2005, 08:20:48 AM »
I was raised catholic and even went to their schools.

We did not worship the virgin mary nor did we worship statues.

We revered Mary as the son of JC who died for our sins on the cross.   We had statues that represented these people (if they indeed existed).

So nuke.... why do you guys worship snakes and drink poison at your church?

lazs

Offline Staga

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2005, 08:27:08 AM »
btw... when was last time you heard in news that Orthodox Christian extremists have been clashing out with Lutherans, Catholics or any other part of population in any country?
Why are Catholics extremists in news several times per year?
Why is Catholic church interfering to politics; in nation- and world wide?

Offline lazs2

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #63 on: May 06, 2005, 08:30:04 AM »
Huh?  Are you saying that catholics are acting like the pompous U.N.?

lazs

Offline midnight Target

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2005, 08:44:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
btw... when was last time you heard in news that Orthodox Christian extremists have been clashing out with Lutherans, Catholics or any other part of population in any country?
Why are Catholics extremists in news several times per year?
Why is Catholic church interfering to politics; in nation- and world wide?


Funny.

I'm looking and the only Theocracy I can find that is Catholic is called Vatican City. I'm thinking maybe your limp lance is pointed at the wrong religion.

Offline Wotan

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2005, 08:48:55 AM »
Nuke you are completely ignorant of what a 'Catholic' believes.

Mary isn't worshiped neither are any of the Saints. They (or one in particular) are asked to pray with us or implored to intercede for us because we believe that when two or more are gathered in prayer our the power of our prayers are greater. If you went to Catholic school surely you have heard of intercession.. (I doubt you did though).

It has nothing to do with 'worshiping' of Mary.

Prayers always are in the name of Jesus. The Pope is not an intermediary for prayer or for a relationship with God.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The 'Pope' follows a direct line of succession from Peter to the present. Peter was chosen by Jesus to build his church.

The Bible didn't mysteriously write itself, it arose out of the traditions of the Church. Certainly the inspiration of God but meant to viewed within the tradition and teachings of the Church.

Non-Orthodox (ie Protestants) break that line of succession and tradition. Luther basically taught that all men are can become their own Church and can interpret the Bible any way they wish. Even though all the various sects of Protestants claim their understanding of Scripture are correct because they were "led by the Holy Spirit."

If that was the case they why are there so many sects? This is why tradition is so essential. It keeps people from misinterpreting their own ego or prior false understanding for "guidance by the Holy Spirit." Tradition keeps restraint on the wild-eyed among us who have big imaginations.

Orthodox Christianity (which includes but not exclusively Catholic) provides that context through tradition.

I'm not singling anyone out here. Neither am I saying that ONLY Protestants have to be on guard against this pitfall. Anyone should, but it seems Protestants are the most reluctant to acknowledge this danger. Its like they read something, assume some interpretation, and that's the end of it. And if their interpretation happens to conflict with the traditional interpretation, well, then too bad for the traditional interpretation! Well, not all of them are that ego-centric, but this is the basis from which virtually every Protestant sects originated. Usually it was one man or a small group of persons, who adopted some innovative interpretation and then split-off from whatever group they were affiliated with and then created yet another sect. As if one more sect added to the hundreds already existing was what the world really needed.

All Protestantism pivots on this false idea. It must attack the real Church or else they have nothing, no legitimacy, nothing. Even the cults within Protestantism use the same tactic against earlier establish Protestant sects to establish their own legitimacy. But from the beginning it is a tactic based on a groundless premise.

Most all Protestant sects identify themselves either by their founder's name or some particular aspect of Christian doctrine which they have chosen to emphasize: Lutheranism, Calvinism, Russellites, Methodism, Baptist, Pentecostal, Seven Day Adventists, etc. Each name in itself bespeaks a partial or man-made doctrine.

For example, Calvinism is just a doctrine according to John Calvin, not Jesus Christ. It presumes by its very name that nobody prior to 1500 knew what they were doing - an unbelievably arrogant and self-serving premise which essentially brands the all the great theologians, evangelists, and martyrs of Christianity as dimwits, fools, or liars.

Quote
Catholic church is one of the decendants of the churches the apostles founded BUT it's not the one which is following the original sacraments, liturgies and heritage of the "first churches"; that honor goes to the church of Constaninople (Byzantine and Orthodox christians.


I can write up a comparison between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox but it would but 3 posts long. They have far more in common with each other they say any of the numerous Protestant sects.

Offline Staga

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2005, 08:53:01 AM »
Heh...

Quote

Pope means father; he is even called by the divine title "Holy Father" - but the disciples of Jesus Christ know only one Father, God. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven" (Matthew 23:9). Nor do we call anyone by the title "holy" except our God, for the Scriptures say: "Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy" (Revelations 15:4). The Pope is also known as Supreme Pontiff, a title inherited from the old Roman pagan mystery religion. Pontiff (Latin pontifex) means a bridge; but for us Christians we have only one bridge to heaven -- one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

Offline Don

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2005, 08:56:08 AM »
>>chant hail Mary's?<<

Hmmm, I chant Hail Marys' because it makes me feel good.

Offline Wotan

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #68 on: May 06, 2005, 09:08:55 AM »
A 'Hail Mary' is simply a request asking Mary to pray for us 'sinners'.

It has nothing to do with 'worshiping' her.

Offline Dinger

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2005, 09:10:25 AM »
No church today particularly resembles the primitive Christian Church.

The Catholic and Orthodox churches do have the advantage of saying they adhere to a continuous tradition rooted in the primitive church. But to say "the Orthodox got it right and the Catholics got it wrong" lacks any basis in reality.

As for the rest, this board does have an ignore list folks. I use it for a reason, though I currently only have one person on that list. If your opponent does not agree on any reasonable principles of argument, there's no point discussing with him.

Offline Toad

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2005, 09:18:11 AM »
I have SEEN THE LIGHT!

I just realized that almost everybody in the world is going to hell.

Our kind and loving God and Father is going to turn his face away, and condemn to eternal damnation, all Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Animalists, and anyone else...even aborigines... that haven't had Jimmy Swaggart preach the Bible to them and "save" them.

Knowing all, God knew since creation that he would eventually condemn the vast majority of the men made in his own image and likeness to eternal hellfire.

Isn't that what all loving fathers really want? Most of their children to suffer eternally?

Thanks, Nuke! Truly an AB/FAB thread. Best one in quite a while.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Staga

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2005, 09:25:03 AM »
Don't worry Toad; "He" is the kind and forgiving holy father and not a god of vengeance like some like to think.
No father would put his daughters and sons into a eternal suffering; that would be against all teachings of Jesus.

Offline Toad

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2005, 09:35:15 AM »
Sorry, Staga.

Nuke KNOWS.

It's all over amigo..... eternal hellfire for the present world's non-christians (including those damnable non-christian Catholics apparently).

It's the only thing a loving Father can do.

Something like 70% of the world's population is non-christian, (more if you don't count Catholics as christian like Nuke). So the all-knowing Creator knew up front he was going to have to damn 70% of His creations in His own image.

Sad.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline JAGED

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A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #73 on: May 06, 2005, 09:36:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dinger
No church today particularly resembles the primitive Christian Church.

The Catholic and Orthodox churches do have the advantage of saying they adhere to a continuous tradition rooted in the primitive church. But to say "the Orthodox got it right and the Catholics got it wrong" lacks any basis in reality.


Actually, and depending on your definition of "the primitive Christian Church," I believe the Orthodox are closest to representing the early Church of the first millennium.  They still perform the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom unaltered from the first millennium.  Since the schism they have not held any Ecumenical Councils (due to the absence of the Western Patriarchate) and have resisted theological change.  They still recite the original Creed without the filioque.  They have resisted dogmatic definitions of Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception (among others) even though, in essence, they believe these things.  They regard the Pope only as "the first among equals" as it was in the first millennium.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: A few religious question for catholics.
« Reply #74 on: May 06, 2005, 09:41:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
1. Why do you worship/pray to the virgin Mary? Where in the bible are you instructed to do so?

2. Rosary beads and Hail Mary's, where did that come from?

3. Is any man holy? What about the pope? ANy refernece for a pope in the bible?

4. Confession of sins to another man. Where is that called for in the bible.

5. granting of sainthood. How is it that the church decides who will be elevated to "saint" ?

Thank you for your thoughful answers.


Sorry, I'll keep my practice of Catholicism to myself and family.  

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