Author Topic: That Putin is one Funny Guy (Read 1166 times)

mora · « **Reply #30 on:** May 07, 2005, 07:31:02 AM »

In a democracy the power is theoretically given to the average not the most intelligent. But those who control the media have the real power.

Boroda · « **Reply #31 on:** May 07, 2005, 07:34:09 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mora
In a democracy the power is theoretically given to the stupidest. But those who control the media have the real power.

Exactly. "Democracy" is a curtain that hides real puppet masters, and shifts responsibility upon "voters".

SunTracker · « **Reply #32 on:** May 07, 2005, 08:08:03 AM »

Thats fascinating Toad. But whether its a Republic or a Democracy, the majority should be making the decisions. Do you know why the electoral college sometimes gives power to the minorities? Its because of population census errors.

Toad · « **Reply #33 on:** May 07, 2005, 08:11:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SunTracker
But whether its a Republic or a Democracy, the majority should be making the decisions.

You realize you are in direct opposition to the Founding Fathers, right?

You further realize, as those quotes above point out, that "simple majority" governments do not have a history of enduring.

Do the words "bread and circuses" ring any bells?

Errors in the Census don't invalidate the Electoral College concept. I'm quite certain the Census is far more accurate now than it was when the Electoral College was instituted. The Founders knew there'd be Census errors.

In your vein of thought, we'd be unable to hold any elections at all, even with simple majority rule. Because I'm sure you admit there will be at least ONE issue of voter fraud which would invalidate the whole election.

SunTracker · « **Reply #34 on:** May 07, 2005, 08:21:15 AM »

Populations fluctuate between the censuses. And in support of our founding fathers, the majority of the people elect the person they want to represent them.

The population fluctuations between censuses are the causes of Presidents losing the popular vote, but winning the electoral vote.

lazs2 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 07, 2005, 08:26:18 AM »

hmm.. thought we were a democratic republic with 50 states.

The country was intended to focus on states rights and that is what the electorial college does. I certainly don't want new york and california deciding the way of Utah and Idaho say.

lazs

Suave · « **Reply #36 on:** May 07, 2005, 09:09:11 AM »

There is a reason that our country is a constitutional republic and not a direct democracy.

It's so that 51% of the population can't take rights away from the other 49%.

Remember Putin's excuse for getting rid of telivised electoral debates?

Boroda · « **Reply #37 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:02:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave

Remember Putin's excuse for getting rid of telivised electoral debates?

What? Getting rid? Did I miss something?

He refused to take part in debates, not banned them, in fact they were useless but funny. Unfortunately other presidental candidates on the last elections were just clowns, useful only for entertaiment.

Toad · « **Reply #38 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:14:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SunTracker
Populations fluctuate between the censuses.

No kidding. The Census is every 10 years. Of course it fluctuates.

The Constitution includes the phrase "[An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct."

The Founders KNEW populations were going to fluctuate. So, since they knew that, it's not a factor in the debate over the Electoral College.

The EC was set up based on a 10 year Census. That's the way it's SUPPOSED to be.

Suave · « **Reply #39 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:25:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
What? Getting rid? Did I miss something?

He refused to take part in debates, not banned them, in fact they were useless but funny. Unfortunately other presidental candidates on the last elections were just clowns, useful only for entertaiment.

That's like saying, "Bush didn't get rid of presidential election debates, he just refused to participate in them."

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #40 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:30:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SunTracker

People should be equally important, not states. Alaska should not have the same voting power as Florida.

Why not? Arent the people of Alaska as important as the people in Fla?

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #41 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:39:14 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
What? Getting rid? Did I miss something?

Unfortunately other presidental candidates on the last elections were just clowns, useful only for entertaiment.

Were they really?
Or did the Media (now again controled by your government I beleive, but correct me if Im wrong)
Simply spin them that way?

Maverick · « **Reply #42 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:45:55 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SunTracker
Why would you say this? The majority should rule.

People should be equally important, not states. Alaska should not have the same voting power as Florida.

Given your premise here the elections would be decided by a small minority of states. IIRC 7 contain the majority of the population. That would mean the election could be decided without any need to consult the other 43 states. Highly urbanized states would in effect control all of the government. Does that sound fair to you? Hint; there is a reason why the senate is based on 2 from each state.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #43 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:55:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Why not? Arent the people of Alaska as important as the people in Fla?

yes they are but there's were the "majority rule" comes into play. The states themselves don't elect a president its the states electors. They cast their vote the way the population does.....BUT some states IIRC have a split vote....or they're working on that.....

Without the electoral college I could campaign in NY and CA and promise those two states all the bennies in the world on a silver platter. I could get elected on those two states votes alone and not have to worry about any other state in the union. With the electoral votes other states have a "weighted value" so to speak, based on population.

Alaska has very few possible votes but they still count because of their electoral votes.

I know there was talk about enacting a "split vote" here in cali but I havnt heard anything since. Basically the state would split it's 55 votes among the canidates based on results.

Without the electoral college you TAKE AWAY power from the smaller states.

ASTAC · « **Reply #44 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:55:57 AM »

They electoral college was set up because it was believed that the average citizen wasn't smart enought to decide who should be president....Only recently have electors had to vote with the mojority of the state's population..they used to have a free hand to vote how they wanted.