Jug compared to 190A8 question

[MANDO]

Current AH P47s (any) retain E much MUCH better than current AH 190A8 or F8, doesnt matter whether vertical or horizontal.

Currently, a P47D40 has a better climb rate (and level acceleration) over 190A8 (both with 50% fuel, 6 mgs vs 4x20mm) at any alt above 2k, being equal up to 2k. The P47 retains a climb rate over 3500 up to 12k, the 190A8 reaches 3500 fpm as soon as 2k.

All in all, an AH P47D40 is better or equal than an AH 190A8 at any alt.

[Wadke]

Foder would you like my views for F6F?

i don't understand when everyone talks about the bad 6 view...my view is just fine or maybe i'm just that used to it

[Gooss]

Chicks dig gullwings.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by Wadke
Foder would you like my views for F6F?

i don't understand when everyone talks about the bad 6 view...my view is just fine or maybe i'm just that used to it

Sure would

email jbuettner@gci.com

Thanks

[Kweassa]

After readig this thread, I'm disheartened to see that the Thunderbolt is still not given the highest roll rate of the European Theater planes. Those who flew it said that the roll rate of the Jug gave a manuever advantage over the FW and Bf.

 Then those who flew them would be wrong.

[gunnss]

I have the Training tapes for the P 47, and as regards the make the point many times that the Aux tankage MUST be burned off first, saying that the CG improvement is needed for air to air combat.  other than that I allmost never take the full ammo load, and some times only take the 6 - .50 option......

Gunns

[Flyboy]

if you going to take only 6 guns.. just take a P51.

[TexMurphy]

Ive flown the P47D25 exclusivly as of late and totally fallen in love.

I really liked the F6F, which I flew before but the jug is just love on a completely different level. Its actually kind of a F6F Senior. Bigger and meaner F6F while still retaining the two best things about the F6F (flaps and rudder).

The most amazing thing about the P47 is how damn well it manouvers.

Most Fighter Jugs you see in the MA are BnZers exclusivly. Such a waste.

If you use the vertical aspect, flaps, rudder and work on your e retention the Jug will own everything the MA can throw at it.

In all planes Ive dedicated my self to learn there has always been some plane that Ive struggled against but in the Jug I really cant find any enemies that cant be dealt with in ease.

One of the slight problems though is the 190 A5. Thats the only of the 190s that can cause me some problems. The A8 is a nobrainer though as the Jug can outmanouver it so easily.

Thing is so many people under estimate the powers of the jug. You really need to commit 100% to a Jug that tries to E fight you but most dont because they just expect a BnZer.

Another plane that *could* cause the jug problems but Ive still not ran into any problems is the P38s (espcially the J model). But reason to not have ran into problems with 38s is yet again under estimation. Ive fought 38 a few occations where they have not extended their flaps till they realize "ohh **** what is that jug doing" and that is a tad to late.

Imho the Jug is one of  THE best planes in the game. But you have to know how to use flaps, use rudder and how to conserve as much E as possible while yet beeing agressive.

A good way to learn the Jug is to first learn the F6F. Before I learned the F6F I had no clue what to do in a jug. After the F6F was learned the transition to the jug was VERY smooth.

Tex

[Krusty]

My only problem with your statement is that in reality nobody would have been using flaps in combat. Those that did only used 1 notch, but in AH2 we have over-modeled 5-notches during a furball BS type-o'-stuff

Yes, I use them too, but it's all gaming the game, not flying the plane. If you take away that uber-flappage, to the point you only have 1 notch during combat, then the P47 loses that edge and the FW190 starts owning it (like in WW2)


Note: at mid alts. At high alts, 47 was king!

[AKFokerFoder+]

Tex:

Why the 25 and not the 30 model?  Isn't the 30 more powerful, and have better views?  

Is the 11 model more manuveable?

I was in a P47-30 last night, and took out a co alt Pony-D.  We met on the merge at about 18K. I totally owned him.  I was above him from the meger on.  We fought for about 4 minutes before I got him, but I lost a elevator in a bump.  Another Pony-D had joined by this time (like you really get a 1 on 1 in the MA).  I darn near could stay with him with only 1 elevator.  I kept dragging him down, right to our base.  

I had him low slow(under 200 knots), but on my six for about 2 minutes at our base, and not one of the Knights at the base engaged him until after I was in the dirt.  Which goes to show you that you can not depend on others to clear your six.  No dis on the other players, it was just amazing that no one else picked him up as an easy kill.  For some reason, I don't think they saw him.  Anyway, I sat in the tower and watched him get dog piled by the Knights, so he died.  My vox was out BTW keeping me from calling for help.

I think the Jug is underrated, and I am going to stick with it for a while for sure

[Krusty]

Heathen!!!!

Turn back to the Luftwaffe ways, my brother!

[TexMurphy]

@AKFokerFoder

You know I cant say WHY the 25 feels better then the 30. There aint much difference to them but there is "something" there which gives it a much better feel. Might be that I do like the fact that its a bit more unstable.

The views are the same, it does have a bouble cannopy.

The D11 with its horrible views is still a very nice plane. It indeed is more manouverable and faster, good combo, but it lacks the HP and hence the accelleration for my taste.

And yeah one of the planes that the jug owns the most is the pony. The pony cant bleed E nearly as fast as the jug can and thats what kills it.

@Krusty.

I dont use all 5 notches. I use 1-2 notches with 3 when Im going for the shot. While I *could* use the 3rd much much more plus the 4th and 5th as well I dont really see the point of using them as they bleed too much speed.

I do go 4-5 in one situation and that is slow extream scissors.

I dont really have a clue on how the flaps are over modelled though... is it?

*give too much lift
*give too little drag
*can be deployed at too high speed

Or a combo of all of em?

Tex

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by Krusty
Heathen!!!!

Turn back to the Luftwaffe ways, my brother!

The Jug is calling me,....

I can hear it

"FokerFoder"...  "I am your father..."

"feel the power of the Dark Side..."  

"Together we can rule the Universe"

Resistance is futile

[TexMurphy]

I dont claim Im any master of the jug... only flown it for like 2-3 weeks and only played AH for like 8 or so months... so Im pretty sure there is a ton more to squeze out of it then Im able to.. but this shows relativly well how much vertical there is in a jug...

http://www.riha.nu/ah/JugJug3.ahf

Tex

[AKFokerFoder+]

I do find the ability to deploy manuvering flaps gives you a decided edge.  I used to fly the Pony D a lot.  

Only two planes gave me a fit in the Pony D.  The Jug and the P38.  The P38 imho is one mean machine in the hands of good stick.  I never fight a P38 one on one, period.

I will try the 25 model.  Instability in a fighter plane is a good thing.  The thing that made the Fokker DR-1 such a deadly dog-fighter was the fact that it was unstable in all three axis.  The Sopwith Camel had some of the same problems, and that is what made it so deadly.

As for Krusty's point, I never feared a Jug when I flew the 190A8.  The only plane that was the bane of the A8 was an A5, Dora, a Pony, or the LA7.  I am not talking one on one here, I am talking MA type of flying/fighting.