Author Topic: Interesting religious question  (Read 901 times)

Online Vulcan

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Interesting religious question
« on: May 11, 2005, 03:26:17 PM »
Inspired to me by Nuke...

What would happen if all the images of jesus and mary were changed to reflect their true historical appearance. Which was probably lower class and middle eastern?

IE, what would all the Catholics do if Mary looked like this:



How much weight do the various sects of christianity put in the belief that jesus and mary were middle class and white?

Offline Raider179

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2005, 03:28:16 PM »
time to get a cold one. lol this oughta be good for so many reasons. lol

Offline Skuzzy

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2005, 03:31:27 PM »
One step away from shutting down all religious threads.  They all seem to denegrate into something uglier than my mother-in-law.
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 03:38:33 PM »
i got along good with my in-laws, better than with my wife....lol

Offline Skuzzy

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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2005, 03:41:29 PM »
I did not say I do not get along with her.  I do.  But it does not make her look any better.
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2005, 03:47:29 PM »
Any denomination of Christian that actually believes that is either misguided or just plain silly.  Most of those images are based on paintings by European artists hundreds of years ago, based mostly on the image found on the Shroud of Turin.  They tended to Anglicize him somewhat, and the convention just carried over.  It's pretty much an accepted fact that while the basic features are probably close, skin tone would be nothing like caucasian.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2005, 03:51:20 PM »
It's a valid question Skuzzy.  Modern Christians bear the weight of several various bits of junk the Europeans tossed in over the years to make it more palatable to the general population and win over pagans.  Doesnt make the core any less real, or valid, and sometimes the modern conventions do have a purpose to help make things more relevant to us today.  The uninitiated are totally right to question, as long as they have an open mind and are willing to be convinced.

Offline BTAirsol

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2005, 03:52:54 PM »
Looks do not mean a thing in our faith. We are all created in the image of God.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2005, 04:44:43 PM »
She may well have looked very much like that woman. No big deal. BTW does anyone recall that Afghani woman that was on the cover of Nationa Geographic years ago? Just because they are from that part of the world doesn't mean they are homely.
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Offline Pooh21

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2005, 04:55:43 PM »
Wouldnt matter to me and Im Catholic.


might rile up some of our southern catholics arent christian friends.

Yeah some middle eastern women are hot. which makes me wonder why they cover them up. Oh yeah they got camels
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Offline Seagoon

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2005, 04:56:40 PM »
With sincere apologies to Skuzzy...

The fact that we will never be able to accurately represent Jesus and Mary, and the fact that we inevitably remold them in our own image, was only one of the many reasons that the early church did not make Icons and Images of them. Certainly the apostolic church didn't, and they at least knew what they looked like. It is possibly because the inspired Apostles knew our tendency towards idolatry that they didn't leave behind a single physical description of Christ or his mother from which we could construct a portrait.

I wrote some time ago:
"the only wise God went to great lengths not to leave us with any description of the physical appearance of His Son lest we fall into the sin of image making. Therefore all of our representations of Jesus are inevitably speculations usually based upon our own desires. We create an image of Jesus that says more about the Jesus we want than the Jesus whom God sent.

For instance, isn't it remarkable that the Jesus of The Passion of the Christ, as in almost all physical representations of Christ, is tall, slim, and handsome? Why should not The Son of David (Luke 18:38) have been a relatively small man like His great ancestor? It never seems to have occurred to most image-makers that Jesus could be relatively short, or stout, or even have had a receding hairline. This is in spite of the fact that one of the few details the Bible does give us about Christ's appearance is that "He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him." (Is. 53:2b) The fact that we have any concept of what Jesus looks like and that Gibson's Jesus looks like the traditional Jesus, is a testament to the abiding impact of past iconography. While the Gospels, purposely leave out any description of Jesus that we might use to construct an idol, people have created an image of Jesus that has become almost an industry standard, and it is solely for that reason rather than any basis in fact that audiences would have been outraged had Gibson cast Danny DeVito and not James Caviezel in the leading role. "

and...

"Jesus is the Lord of the Nations. In Him the middle wall of separation is decisively broken down and "there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free." When we make a picture of Christ we inevitably portray him as representative of one race or another. Mel Gibson's Jesus, for instance, is obviously very white. We have once again created a false Jesus that one race can feel comfortable with. He is "one of us." While this is comforting to members of that particular race, it is inevitably irritating to people of other cultures and can actually be a barrier to communicating the gospel to other nations and races. As a result of all the images of the Scandinavian Hippy that westerners have called Jesus, there has been an inevitable backlash and now images of Asian, Middle-Eastern, African, etc. Jesus' are being demanded, and these counter-images offend many Westerners. "That's not Jesus!" they angrily proclaim, because they know what Jesus looks like - they've been seeing images of him since they were children. He's tall, and blond, has a beard and a vaguely sorrowful expression.

The sad thing about this whole argument over what Jesus looked like is that it is so needless. The Apostolic church turned the whole world upside-down via the preaching of the Gospel. Not once did they use pictures of Jesus. What would Peter or Paul say coming into one of our churches and seeing one of our many images of Jesus? Obviously they wouldn't recognize it as the image of the Savior they knew. Wouldn't they assume that this was yet another example of the kind of Hellenistic idolatry they were so familiar, "Men of America, I perceive that in all things you are very religious..."* Aren't we best served proclaiming the gospel of a Christ who is too glorious to be portrayed as a mere man from any one race?"

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* see this  is if you don't get the analogy
« Last Edit: May 11, 2005, 05:02:12 PM by Seagoon »
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2005, 04:58:10 PM »


Budda's image doesn't seem to have effected that religion.  I mean as Jack Nicholson said, "How does a man who weighs over 600 lbs have the balls to preach self discipline?"
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Offline Skuzzy

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2005, 05:04:47 PM »
Seagoon, or anyone else who can conduct themselves with a certain level of decency, there is no reason to apologize.

My post was/is rather pre-emptive.  There are elements who simply cannot keep thier fingers off the keyboard nor do they know when they should keep them off the keyboard and would just as soon disrupt these discussions as breathe.
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Offline Tumor

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2005, 05:25:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
One step away from shutting down all religious threads.  They all seem to denegrate into something uglier than my mother-in-law.


heh... with a little investigative work this could become some SERIOUS blackmail materal :D
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Offline Skuzzy

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Interesting religious question
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2005, 05:28:55 PM »
Nah, she already knows she is ugly.
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