Author Topic: MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff  (Read 1877 times)

Offline Masherbrum

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2005, 07:58:13 AM »
Circumventing language filter
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Offline lazs2

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2005, 08:05:23 AM »
either you own a copy of it when you buy the right to watch it in your home or you don't.   If you buy a DVD you have the right to view it anytime you want or even sell it if you want... All very fair.

It is probly not right for you to make a "backup copy" or twenty.

Is it ok to make a copy of an HBO series say and then give it to your friends after you are done watching it?   I don't know... the courts will decide.

nashwan.. you never replied to my reasoning so I will add to it..  Gun manufactureres make firearms and expect you to use it for a lifetime and pass it on or sell it... they don't want a cut every time you shoot it.   They don't even care if you work on it (so long as they are not leable).   The government is who wants a cut of your shooting or to end it entirely.   In the case of the broadcasters.. it is just the oppossite.. the government would be making laws at their behest in order for them to make you pay every time you wanted to use their product.

lazs
« Last Edit: May 17, 2005, 08:10:23 AM by lazs2 »

Offline Jackal1

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2005, 08:26:20 AM »
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
What can I say.. ignorance is bliss. Once proved again.
 


  Yes it certainly is. You have proved it over and over with your assinine, tinfoil hat posts. Hang in there.

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I could explain you how the industry has demanded hardware/software level changes to ALL consumer media devices allowing them full control of anything you view, but I'd be just wasting my time.


  Awww hell , go ahead and waste some of yours for a change.
  There is nothing that they can do that will effect me in any form or fashion.
  I haven`t really ever considered going into the illegal music or video copying business.

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Jackals of the world are sheep in MPAA/RIAA/Disney etc. flock.


     I believe you have that reversed slick. Like I said it doesn`t effect nor concern me in any form or fashion.
  You on the other hand seem to be the one doing  the Baaaa Baaa  Baaaa routine.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2005, 08:30:37 AM by Jackal1 »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2005, 08:32:14 AM »
sholtzie... explain it to me.   Are you saying that broadcast programs are not copywrighted?

There is very little here that is "freely broadcast" in that most of us pay for a service to bring it to us.   even if you have an antena to pull it out of the air... it is not "free" it is broadcast on the premis that you will listen to their advertisers message.

Sorta like a soup kitchen.. the "free" dinner you get really isn't free... you gotta listen to a little sermon... now, you don't really believe anything is free do you?

lazs

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2005, 10:32:30 AM »
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Like I said earlier or maybe you just didnt read. Anything like that comes out it will get cracked in a month or less. Many movies imploy similar technology to defeat "back-up" copying, regardless it doesnt matter someone always finds a way in.


I guess YOU missed all the bills they're passing right at this moment which aim to make circumventing any copy protection a crime.

That's right, making region free, ad-free, copy free devices all over illegal to sell, market or - own.

Lazs2: Broadcasters pay the royalties during the broadcast. The broadcast is intended to be received by the consumers. Paid in full. The consumer has the right to view this broadcast directly from live stream or by recording it for later use. Everyone has a right to make legal copies of all legally owned media - for his own use.

They're taking your rights away. Next will be your right to bear arms - just see.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2005, 10:36:11 AM by Siaf__csf »

Offline AWMac

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2005, 12:00:50 PM »
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Lazs unfortunately the decisions made in the US affect also us in the long run. That's why it's necessary to try to kill the madness at its source.


Just like someone from some 3rd World Euro Country would say.  They biyatch when we don't be the first to donate the most to help their lil pissant lives or biyatch when we take some type of Military action.

:rolleyes:

Offline Nashwan

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2005, 12:05:29 PM »
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Thier greed stops at nothing. Even though you've purchased a right to use music titles they'll want to charge you again over it somehow. Online music is already licensed for a limited period only - meaning you pay the standard price to listen to a song but will get your access denied after a period of time if you won't keep feeding RIAA more money.

They've found a superb way to force you, the consumers, into paying payment after payment by lobbying and greasing your congressmen into making laws which give MPAA/RIAA basically a carte blanche on licensing enforcement.


That's exactly right. The MPAA have control over DVD formats which means they can ban the sale of new DVD players at any time they see fit, meaning you can watch your old DVDs only as long as the player lasts, and if the MPAA decide, you can't buy a new one.

No chance of them cutting off sales now, of course, but in a few years when they want to boost sales of the next new format, DVD players become unavailable, your library of DVD disks unusable, and you get to buy them again on Blu-Ray or whatever format succeeds DVD.

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Recording copywright material has never been a right in the US.


Depends how you define a right.

If you take the position that anything is a right if not forbidden by law, then it has been a right since the formation of the US.

Copyright law in the US has always had "fair use" provisions, which allow you to copy copyrighted material for legitimate purposes, which weren't clearly defined for a long time.

But the Supreme Court ruled in 1984 that copying a TV programme for viewing at a later time was legal, US courts have also ruled that making backup copies of music etc is legal, and making a copy on a different format is legal (the case concerned making a cassette copy of an album to play in portable music equipment)

So the law in the US is pretty clear that making a copy for personal use is legal.

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nashwan... who says I am against people owning equipment? They should be able to own any they want. Using it ilegally is another thing.


I know that's your stance, I was just suprised you weren't arguing for it in this thread.

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If the content of a program is owned by someone and it can be proven that you have no right to make copies of it then I guess the owners are being wronged if you record it. I don't think that they can make that law tho.


That's what they are trying to do with the broadcast flag.

They want to make it a requirement that all equipment capable of recording broadcasts must comply with the broadcast flag, which means it can only record if the broadcaster allows it.

That would mean it's illegal to sell equipment that doesn't meet those requirements.

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That would mean that books would have to disintegrate after all the pages had been turned for example.


Copyright has traditionally extended up to sale, and once you've bought a copyrighted work, you can resell it whenever you like. (Books, for example)

The modern trend in copyright is to try to retain copyright even after sale, so that you can't sell the item on after you've bought and used it.

Ebook and music downloads are usually tied to the particular pc they were bought on, and can't be resold afterwards.

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If the companies put in some sort of flag that made it impossible to record then new recorders would be sold that got rid of the flag. Without a law to back it up the technology is worthless.


Which is why they are trying to get the law passed.

They tried to do it by the back door, getting the FCC to impose the broadcast flag, and deny FCC approval to any recording equipment that didn't include it (supposed to come in July 2005, overturned by the courts a month ago.)

When the courts ruled the FCC didn't have that power, the MPAA started working on getting the broadcast flag written into law instead.

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Like I said earlier or maybe you just didnt read. Anything like that comes out it will get cracked in a month or less.


It's harder to crack hardware. The MPAA and FCC want it built in to every piece of hardware capable of receiving a digital TV broadcast.

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either you own a copy of it when you buy the right to watch it in your home or you don't. If you buy a DVD you have the right to view it anytime you want or even sell it if you want... All very fair.


Actually that's not the MPAA's position.

They implemented copy protection on DVDs, only licenced players can decode the copy protection, which means you only have a right to watch the DVD you bought on an MPAA approved player.

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Is it ok to make a copy of an HBO series say and then give it to your friends after you are done watching it? I don't know... the courts will decide.


Probably not to give it away, but it is legal to record it and watch it yourself.

Legal, but not possible in the future if the MPAA and FCC get their way.

That's the reason I wondered at your lack of committment to this topic.

It's legal to record a tv programme for your own use, illegal to copy and distribute it.

They are trying to ban the sale of hardware that would allow you to do something perfectly legal (record tv programmes), because it would also allow criminals to do something illegal (distribute tv programmes they have recorded)

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There is nothing that they can do that will effect me in any form or fashion.
I haven`t really ever considered going into the illegal music or video copying business.


Have you ever recorded a TV programme to watch at a later date? eg with a video recorder or tivo?

If so, what they are trying to do will affect you.

You might want to tivo the film on Saturday night because you are going out, and plan to watch it on Sunday.

The MPAA don't want you to record the film on Saturday night because they make money from DVD sales as well as selling it to broadcasters, so they set the broadcast record flag to no, and you can't record it.

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sholtzie... explain it to me. Are you saying that broadcast programs are not copywrighted?


They are copyrighted. Copyright doesn't mean you can't copy it, though.

(sorry for not replying earlier, lazs, I lost my internet connection for 24 hours)

Offline Siaf__csf

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2005, 12:14:57 PM »
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Just like someone from some 3rd World Euro Country would say. They biyatch when we don't be the first to donate the most to help their lil pissant lives or biyatch when we take some type of Military action.


Just like tsunami first ones will be hit the worst, we get only the peaceful albeit annoying tides down here.

It's all in your own best interst, but I'm assured now that you're too blind to see it.

Offline Raider179

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MPAA/RIAA trying more stuff
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2005, 12:31:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I guess YOU missed all the bills they're passing right at this moment which aim to make circumventing any copy protection a crime.

That's right, making region free, ad-free, copy free devices all over illegal to sell, market or - own.

They're taking your rights away. Next will be your right to bear arms - just see.


I never said it was going to be legal to copy stuff. I just said its not gonna make a bit of difference because it will not work.

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2005, 12:40:16 PM »
Oh but it will work, at least for 90% of people who refuse to buy or own illegal devices.

Normal consumers won't even see 'open' devices for sale anywhere and only the underground hobbyists will dare or be able to buy circumvented devices on the illegal market.

Not to mention all issues regarding to guarantees etc. Authorized service companies will refuse to repair 'cracked' hardware let alone do it for free.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2005, 12:54:52 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
There isn't a manmade thing on this planet (and beyond) that isn't copyrighted.

what about the Bible ?
:p

Offline straffo

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« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2005, 02:03:33 PM »
Not on mine (I checked before posting :))

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2005, 02:17:41 PM »
well... it is all really very simple.

Who owns the rights to the programs that come into your home?  The artist (or who he sold it to) or... you.   Did you buy the rights to the program or did you simply buy the right to watch it one specific time.

That is what needs to be answered.  And... who is "they" and what are the real reasons?  Who would subscribe to HBO or even cable if they had to go by the cable companies schedule.

I can't recall the last time I watched a program that wasn't recorded and.... I wouldn't.   I would drop my cable service.

lazs

Offline straffo

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« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2005, 03:24:08 PM »
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Originally posted by GScholz
You asked them?

They don't need to print anything about the copyright. It is a right not a privilege. In fact they would have to specifically waver their rights for you to be able to legally use their work beyond "fair use".


I don't think it will be possible to have a discussion on this subject with the people who have printed my copy.

I did look closely but I've not seen any phone number.
It doesn't really surprise me as my bible has been printed in 1764 :D

I admit I cheated a bit :p

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2005, 10:32:57 AM »
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Oh but it will work, at least for 90% of people who refuse to buy or own illegal devices.

Normal consumers won't even see 'open' devices for sale anywhere and only the underground hobbyists will dare or be able to buy circumvented devices on the illegal market.

Not to mention all issues regarding to guarantees etc. Authorized service companies will refuse to repair 'cracked' hardware let alone do it for free.


keep on dreamin. You have no evidence to back up any of that. That is just your opinion. And its an opinion from Europe. When was the last time you lived in America again?