1/2 year evaluation: Ki-84

[Schutt]

I think it is used so rarely because it falls apart in a fast dive.

Also the bomb load is not enough to drop the VH. I like it to come into a base with the p38, drop VH and start fights.

[Saintaw]

I have always been unsuccessfull with that thing, more than any other ride for some unknown reason  (ok, I know I just plainly s*ck )

It's a pity, because I spend loads of time in the A6m5, and this one looks much better.

[storch]

I prefer the Ki61.  perhaps if they modelled the late war variant?

[CHECKERS]

KI 84 is very exciting to watch burn,...... a flying Torch...

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Kweassa
However, what is intriguing is other players of other nationalities do not seem much attracted to it - despite the fact that as a fighter the Ki-84 is superior to the Spit9 or even the Spit5 under MA circumstances. The maneuverability is roughly simular(or even better under some circumstances), but the speed is much higher. It is about 28mph faster than the Spit5 and 24mph faster than the Spit9.

I think the main difference between Spits and the Ki-84 isn't high speed but rather maneuverability at high speed.  Thus while the Spits might be markedly slower than Ki-84s, they can do so much more at that speed than their Japanese counterparts.  Spits handle pretty decently at high speed and require an enormous amount of speed before locking up tight.  On the other hand, Ki-84s tend to stiffen up rather early and come out of it rather late.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[BlkKnit]

pilot wounds, pilot wounds, pilot wounds........

Other than that, I like it.  Been flying it quite a bit this weekend and have managed to reach the point where it takes 20 seconds to die, rather than 5.

[dedalos]

I hate it.  The plane sucks.  Don't fly it unless you want to waste your time.  Its useles against 38s and SpitVs.

[Urchin]

I actually liked it quite a bit.  I'm not going to be as verbose as Kweassa was, but for me the manueverability falls somewhere between the Spit 5 and the Spit 9.  

It is easily the 2nd best knife-fighter in the game, after the Spit 5.  I think the main reason people don't fly it much is because you don't get a whole lot for the added speed.  La-7s, D-9s, P-51s, G-10s... they'll all still run away from you, even though you are ~20 mph faster than the Spit 5.  But you give up Hizookas, and a slight edge in turning and overall handling (the Spit 5 is much 'crisper' on the controls), which make it not quite as ideal for killing.  You also have to work quite a bit harder to get the best out of a Ki-84 (flaps, flaps... you are always playing with the flaps.. at least I was).  So you really sacrifice for no gain.

It is a great plane for someone who knows how to knife-fight but doesn't feel like flying the same plane as 20% of the arena.  Although I guess now that the generic SPIT tag has been replaced with Spit9, etc that isn't as big a problem.

[Clifra Jones]

It is now one of my main rides.

Kw basically said it all. Most who don't like it are trying to fly it like they fly other planes and this is their mistake. It took me a good 3 weeks to learn this plane. It is unlike any other plane I have flown. Both good and bad.

If you fly to it's strengths you will be successful if you fly to its weeknesses you will not. She is a tempermental girls and you have to treat her that way. Speed is both your friend and your enemy. I use a combination of energy and angles tactics. Very few planes can chase you in a climbing spiral.

I like the gun package. The 12.7s are effective even at long ranges. Although they do suffer from the typical poor IJN ballistic characteristics. The 20's seem about the same as the N1k2 20's.

[SuperDud]

At speeds of 150 or above Spits have advantage. When you get nice and slow, neither spit can hang with it for long(spit5 can make a show of it). Basically in MA I go for rope with it or try to slow the fight down fast. IMO biggest knock against it are it's guns which don't seem to have a lot of hitting power.

[pellik]

The KI-84 is a real beast if a) you don't understand what exactly it can and can not do, and b) it's being flown to it's potential. Fortunatly the prevelance of condition a usually limits condition b.

In the MA the KI-84 has two main strengths that really make it worth trying. First when you cut throttle this thing comes to a stop in no time. Turning it with 0 throtle it actually slows faster then a typhoon. I don't even attempt medium speed reversals against this plane because of this. The other strength it offers is that it can go verticle fairly quickly at low speed. This requires a great deal of care, as it's stall isn't particularly forgiving. But its this low speed verticle performance that allows this plane to consistantly out-turn the spitV in a knife fight. You just want to immel, reverse into a scissor, rinse, repeat. When things get sufficiently slow do your immel then start a flat turn on top at ~90mph. You can push the spit out of his envelope at these low speeds and force him to break off just long enough to turn back in for position.

These strengths require a great deal of care to exploit, however. Stall fighting keeps you slow, so being successful with it usually involves staying above your enemy. You need good SA to manage the E states of every con in the sector as stall fighting isnt effective with BnZers comming in. I also see a lot of KI pilots get in trouble assuming they are in the best stall fighter in the game. Despite it's good low speed handling, the KI-84 does not match the 38 in the verticle. Performance wise these planes turn at about the same rate, and nose up about as fast. Yes the KI-84 has a slight turn advantage on the 38, but it's only about 1/4th a circle every 3 rotations. And before you gain this turn advantage the 38 will go verticle to speeds below 90mph, where the KI-84 can't follow. Basically as a 38 pilot these guys are brutal if you break out of the verticle to try and turn, but they die fast if you just take em past their envelope.

The other problem I've had with the KI-84 is that 'go verticle, hit flaps, flat turn, shoot' is really the only move you get to make in this plane. It's powerful, but it's not an options ride. I can only fly one of these things for a few minutes a tour, then the repitition of it gets to me. Even the SpitV has more tricks then this plane.

-p.

[Alky]

Originally posted by SuperDud
IMO biggest knock against it are it's guns which don't seem to have a lot of hitting power.

Not good news for me since I'm considering changing my handle to SprayMaster or something. I can unload a fresh clip at D400 and not hit the target, sad but true 80% of the time
I do however manage to stay up longer in the KI-84 because of it's ability to turn quickly, it has a tendancy to get me out of harms way a little better

[TracerX]

Originally posted by oboe

btw, how is Hayate pronounced?   Is it Ha'-yah-tay?

I thought it was pronounced Hate, like I hate when I get shot down by the KI-84.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by pellik
The KI-84 is a real beast if a) you don't understand what exactly it can and can not do, and b) it's being flown to it's potential. Fortunatly the prevelance of condition a usually limits condition b.

In the MA the KI-84 has two main strengths that really make it worth trying. First when you cut throttle this thing comes to a stop in no time. Turning it with 0 throtle it actually slows faster then a typhoon. I don't even attempt medium speed reversals against this plane because of this. The other strength it offers is that it can go verticle fairly quickly at low speed. This requires a great deal of care, as it's stall isn't particularly forgiving. But its this low speed verticle performance that allows this plane to consistantly out-turn the spitV in a knife fight. You just want to immel, reverse into a scissor, rinse, repeat. When things get sufficiently slow do your immel then start a flat turn on top at ~90mph. You can push the spit out of his envelope at these low speeds and force him to break off just long enough to turn back in for position.

These strengths require a great deal of care to exploit, however. Stall fighting keeps you slow, so being successful with it usually involves staying above your enemy. You need good SA to manage the E states of every con in the sector as stall fighting isnt effective with BnZers comming in. I also see a lot of KI pilots get in trouble assuming they are in the best stall fighter in the game. Despite it's good low speed handling, the KI-84 does not match the 38 in the verticle. Performance wise these planes turn at about the same rate, and nose up about as fast. Yes the KI-84 has a slight turn advantage on the 38, but it's only about 1/4th a circle every 3 rotations. And before you gain this turn advantage the 38 will go verticle to speeds below 90mph, where the KI-84 can't follow. Basically as a 38 pilot these guys are brutal if you break out of the verticle to try and turn, but they die fast if you just take em past their envelope.

The other problem I've had with the KI-84 is that 'go verticle, hit flaps, flat turn, shoot' is really the only move you get to make in this plane. It's powerful, but it's not an options ride. I can only fly one of these things for a few minutes a tour, then the repitition of it gets to me. Even the SpitV has more tricks then this plane.

-p.

With all the respect Pellik, I think you just have not flown the KI a lot.  You said you only flew it a few minutes and the repetition got to you?  It can out turn a spitV but only has a slight turn advantage agaist the 38?  The 38 can go vertical at 90mph? so? KI84 can go vertical at 70mph.  If anything can kill a good 38 pilot, it is the KI84.  What kind of tricks does the spitV have that make it more interesting?

Please don't see this as an attack.  I just think you wrong.  I can't count the number of 38s I killed because they thought they could go vertical with a KI on them.  You are right about flying slow though.  The KI can virtualy stop in mid air, wait for the overshoot, wep on and you can go straight up in a matter of seconds.  I took of a CV last night with 75% fuel.  Went straight up using about 1/4 or less of the CV deck.

[Soda]

The high speed handling/aerodynamic-fragility is the bane of the Ki84. The speed intolerance of the Ki-84 is the real issue and how it conflicts with the average persons engagement profile.  Most people in speed-inferior aircraft use the "climb high, dive in for extra speed, chase down an opponent and force them to turn-fight" profile for this type of aircraft. That's a dangerous approach in the Ki84 as it tends to shed parts easily at speed and the handling becomes very heavy. The Ki84 can also be easily frustrated by diving away, taking away the maneuvering advantage it may have and making a pretty easy escape.  The Spit V simply has far better handling over the entire speed range of most aircraft.

The firepower/ammunition "weakness" is more perceived than actual in my mind.  I'd agree that ballistically they are a bit weak but otherwise I think they are pretty much average in terms of ammunition duration, impact and total firepower potential.  Only other thing to add is the quick cycle time on the WEP which allows you to run it on a whim and not worry about being caught without it when you really need it.

Kweassa covered the rest pretty much.