I believe in free speech but......

[Shuckins]

Aw...I don't know about that Charon...a good smack in the mouth can often teach a smart-arse some manners.

Some would consider the result worth a couple of nights in jail, or a fine, or both.

If that clod really has such contempt for our fighting men in the military, he should have the guts to say so to their faces.  I'd pay money to see the results of that.

But of course, he doesn't have the guts.




The type of speech he is exercising goes outside the original spirit of the type of "freedom of expression" touted by our Founding Fathers.  They envisioned it as the open and respectful discourse of public and political events.

The type of discourse he is practicing is symptomatic of the coarsening of American culture and speech in recent decades.  This coarsening of dialogue is reflected in the cursing, name calling, and vitriolic, biased, political commentary engaged in by some on these boards.

[ASTAC]

Of course one could view his discriptive words such as "scumbags" and "morons" as "defamation of character" against all military members.

For what we put up with from our daily operations to the way some civilians view us..we deserve every cent we get and more. We do it for the most part without complaint.

[Charon]

The type of speech he is exercising goes outside the original spirit of the type of "freedom of expression" touted by our Founding Fathers. They envisioned it as the open and respectful discourse of public and political events.

I disagree. Our founding fathers were rather harsh in their speech concerning King George and Mother England. I think they burned some flags and some effigies as well. Their speech was fairly harsh towards each other, brutal at times and dirty. Politics, for example, is tame today by comparison to even the late 1700s and certainly the 1800s.

The founding fathers allowed for a higher tolerance of freedom of speech (short of a direct, clear, tangible national threat) than many are comfortable with today, because they experienced first hand the personal dangers of expressing "unpopular" thought.

If you hit this ultra melon you should go to jail (porportinate to the assault). He has a right to be heard, just as a Michale Savage has a right to be heard -- and ignored. No one had to watch Fox news, and no one has to click on his Web site. We're not Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Iran, North Korea or any numer of ****holes countries where only correct thoughts are allowed. And you can't allow yourself to start down that road. Freedom isn't easy, clean, orderly or neat (or particularly secure, for that matter). There are downsides along with the upsides. Get rid of the downsides and you start to have the type of orderly, proper society that would make Hitler proud.

Charon

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Nash
Well Gunslinger, I guess I can only really explain it by saying this:

It is all well and good to extol the virtues of free speech. But it means nothing if you do not understand nor respect its intrinsic value.

The willingness to defend it despite any personal affront you may feel towards the actual expression of it is virtuous.

The willingness to punish the expression of it through physical violence if that expression isn't agreeable to you is not.

I never said I was perfect either.

[deSelys]

Nice post, Charon.

[Gh0stFT]

Originally posted by Charon

The list goes on. Ignore them and they go away.

Charon

to bad that didnt worked back in the 30 when Hitler got into power,
they turned the other way and listend more and more to his lies,
and before they realized what happened free speech was verboten.

[bob149]

Sorry dont believe someone can mention respect and the IRA in the same post

[Pooh21]

you just did?




I understand what you are trying to say though.


But it is touching 6 people of widely different beliefs, some even hated enemys coming together to put a vegan-smelly-hippy in the hospital for a month. heartwarming even.

[bob149]

Hi Pooh
Yep couldve worded that better ,but i was very angry  and in this age of the war against terror i cant understand anyone glorifying anything thease murderers have ever done ,and that is all they are

[Furious]

this is fantastic.

I WILL KILL OTHER PEOPLE TO DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO SAY SOMETHING I MIGHT NOT LIKE, BUT AS SOON AS YOU DO I WILL KICK YOUR ASS!!!  GRRR!!!

[Hangtime]

Yup.

I love this country!

[Slurpee]

Its amazing how people can take something simple, and twist it around.

That guys a POS.

[Seagoon]

The part of his website that really made my eyes pop out in his contention that the military are "overpaid."

I know of JAG lawyers who aren't even earning a third of what they would if they simply resigned their commissions and began chasing ambulances in a private practice. The same is true of the various army doctors and dentists. The average SF guy can instantly inflate his salary at least two fold by quiting and going to work for a private security firm like Blackwater. These guys are called upon to spend months away from their homes and families in countries they have no desire to be in, constantly in danger of being shot, run-over, or blown-up and all generally for salaries and benefits below what an assistant manager at Walmart receives.

Admittedly many join the military because it seems like the only option available, or because they want to pay for school, or because they believe the inflated promises of a recruiter. But the most dedicated join because they believe that someone has to, it is in that sense an act of service rendered to their countrymen and their families. However, there is a growing feeling amongst servicemen and women that their sacrifices are not appreciated, that they, and not the terrorists they are fighting are being made out to be the enemy, and that nothing good that they accomplish or achieve will ever be reported. This is having a morale busting effect, and more and more men I know are not re-upping. Many see the insidious "babykiller" mentality returning - especially in the media - and have no desire to serve if it means becoming a universal hate symbol.   Frankly, I don't blame 'em. They are painfully aware that the Arab Umma  and media are far more supportive of Al Qaeda than the US populace and media are of them.  

- SEAGOON

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Furious
this is fantastic.

I WILL KILL OTHER PEOPLE TO DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO SAY SOMETHING I MIGHT NOT LIKE, BUT AS SOON AS YOU DO I WILL KICK YOUR ASS!!!  GRRR!!!

yup, it may be ironic but at least I'm true to myself.

Seagoon,

when I was a Private E-1 my check was $235 every two weeks.  This was in 96 and I thaught that was good enough cause I had no bills.  FLash forward 5 years and I am an ATC RADAR tech E-5 living in the barracks and $750 every two weeks keeps me happy.

My FAA counter parts were being hired on at $65-80K a year.  The military was getting me Dirt Cheap!

one thing this guy doesnt take into account is alot of major pay raises happend between 1998 and 2000.  The military had to, the job market was booming.  Food baggers were getting $500 hiring bonuses MC "d"s was paying $10/hour in some areas and that's just the start of it.  The military could not compete in the job market because of the low pay.  They had to adapt if they wanted to meet recruting retention goals.

Of course the market is alot different now but w/ 10 years experience I now only make slightly less than my civilian counterpart does starting out.

[Silat]

Take the hook out.
I think its a bad joke.