Fighter Jocks: What's Your Personal Fighting Style?

[Shuckins]

Thought it might be fun, and helpful, to exchange notes on what works for you and what doesn't.

Might also be helpful to those who don't know a lot about ACM.

Personally, while I sometimes fall prey to an insidious desire to dive into a furball with my hair on fire, I'm just not that good at it.  

When I do that, I die.  A LOT!

Currently, I'm trying to learn energy tactics. Taking a leaf from Hartmann, my basic style involves:

1.  Have at least 15k of alt

2.  Never fly at less than 250mph

3.  See and assess

4.  Select a single enemy

5.  Dive on his 6, getting slightly below him

6.  Make a firing pass, opening fire at 200

7.  Blow through...extend for at least 5k...climb back up to my perch.

8.  Reasses the situation and/or look for another target.


Things to not do:

1.  Get involved in low-level furball

2.  Follow a slower moving target for more than 45 degrees

3.  Feel bad about taking a split-ess and fleeing from higher cons

[Flyboy]

you will get a good kill to death ratio but you will learn nothing from flying like this

[Schaden]

Fly the way you want and ignore everyone else - especially the AH T&B mafia who can't fly anything but Spits and whine when you don't play the game their way.

Also this ain't flying - it's a video game with cartoon planes.

[nopoop]

6000 tops, if it's a single high I usually fall asleep. Once in a while he knows what he's doing and fights. Good E fighting is a lost art, no one breaks out the rubber band any more. If it's a couple I usually nod off also. Tag teaming is done by but a few.

If theres one low, he runs. I've found you need two or three low so they stay around.

I usually find a fight, I usually die. But fighting is what I enjoy.

[TheThang]

these people in 109, p51, and 190's are annoying. all they do is run. its beginning to get on my nerves. When i find someone willing to stay and fight (mind you I usually lose) its a joy.

[AKFokerFoder+]

Originally posted by Shuckins

1.  Have at least 15k of alt

2.  Never fly at less than 250mph

3.  See and assess

4.  Select a single enemy

5.  Dive on his 6, getting slightly below him

6.  Make a firing pass, opening fire at 200

7.  Blow through...extend for at least 5k...climb back up to my perch.

8.  Reasses the situation and/or look for another target.


Things to not do:

1.  Get involved in low-level furball

2.  Follow a slower moving target for more than 45 degrees

3.  Feel bad about taking a split-ess and fleeing from higher cons

Some comments:

1.  15K is way to high to engage the majority of targets you will find in the MA.  8 to 10K is a good all around working altitude.

2.  300 mph is a much better minimum speed for your style of fighting.  Of course you will go under 250 on the climb out.

5.  Get a bunch below him.  Many planes have a pretty good low six view.  You want to be low enough so that when he gets a check six call, he will look back and not see you.

6.  I start shooting at about 300-350.  You can judge your distance by you closure rate.  If it takes 4 seconds to go from 600 to 400, then wait 2 seconds after the range changes to 400 before opening fire.

7. Start climbing immediately after disengaging.  You want to re-establish alt as soon as.  This will discourage La La's from running you down.  They see that you are getting alt and leaving them they will break off.  La Las suck above 8k, as they lose any gain from WEP.  If you run, they will run with you, and given their acceleration and speed, they will soon be co-e with you at low alt.  They will force you to take evasives, lose speed, and the Spittie following them will chew you to pieces (Spitties live for those kind of kills)

As for running from higher cons, if they aren't much higher, take them on.  Most will run from any kind of aggression on your part.


Some additional suggestions:

Turn off tracers, you don't need them, and they give you and extra edge in surprise.

Use a plane with lots of cannons, like the 190A8 or the Typhie.  Or if you really need to run, a Dora, a G10, or a PonyD.  Of those the 109G10 compresses to easy for my liking, and the PonyD only has 50 cals.  The Dora's guns are hard to hit anything with for some reason.

For all around fighting the PonyD has it all. Speed, maneuverability, excellent views, good acceleration, lots of fuel, can take a fair amount of ordinance.

Learn to read a book as you fly, it will help with boredom.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Shuckins


6.  Make a firing pass, opening fire at 200

7.  Blow through...extend for at least 5k...climb back up to my perch.

8.  Reasses the situation and/or look for another target.

Extending as far as you do only allows the enemy pilot regain any E that he lost while evading your high speed pass.  Basically, the fight becomes a stalemate and you're forced to run to look for far easier targets.

Don't be afraid to press your BnZ attacks.  The object is to make the enemy burn his E that it sets up an angle for you to shoot at.  You can't do that if you extend 5k and allow him to regain his E and some altitude.

ack-ack

[Eagler]

I hope I do not fight you as it sounds very boring...

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Some comments:

1.  15K is way to high to engage the majority of targets you will find in the MA.  8 to 10K is a good all around working altitude.

I used to agree with this, but lately I've been finding if I stop at 10k I'm running into lots of guys above me.  So I started going to 12k.  Now its 15k.  Just to be coalt.  I think it comes and goes.  

2.  300 mph is a much better minimum speed for your style of fighting.  Of course you will go under 250 on the climb out.

Agreed.  If you want to play BnZ with multiple targets and survive, stay 300 and above.  At 250 warning bells should be ringing.  

5.  Get a bunch below him.  Many planes have a pretty good low six view.  You want to be low enough so that when he gets a check six call, he will look back and not see you.

I have to disagree here.  Most planes I've found have a HORRIBLE 6 view, even rolling.  A mild barrel roll is required in most planes to truly be sure of a clear 6.  Go too far below and you blow your egress speed on the climb back to target.  If he's going to miss seeing you, he's missed you whether you are way lower or not.

6.  I start shooting at about 300-350.  You can judge your distance by you closure rate.  If it takes 4 seconds to go from 600 to 400, then wait 2 seconds after the range changes to 400 before opening fire.

Agreed.  I have my convergence set at 200, I start when I feel he's around 300 (maybe 250 if my rate of closure isnt as fast).  I want to be firing already when I hit convergence.  One burst to make sure I'm on target, then hold it down until I'm past.  

7. Start climbing immediately after disengaging.  You want to re-establish alt as soon as.  This will discourage La La's from running you down.  They see that you are getting alt and leaving them they will break off.  La Las suck above 8k, as they lose any gain from WEP.  If you run, they will run with you, and given their acceleration and speed, they will soon be co-e with you at low alt.  They will force you to take evasives, lose speed, and the Spittie following them will chew you to pieces (Spitties live for those kind of kills)

As for running from higher cons, if they aren't much higher, take them on.  Most will run from any kind of aggression on your part.

Absolutely.  Although I wouldnt be so confident about the lala's performance above 8k.  You never know if its a newb or a shark in that lala, and taking it for granted just because you have alt is a dangerous mistake.

Some additional suggestions:

Turn off tracers, you don't need them, and they give you and extra edge in surprise.

Use a plane with lots of cannons, like the 190A8 or the Typhie.  Or if you really need to run, a Dora, a G10, or a PonyD.  Of those the 109G10 compresses to easy for my liking, and the PonyD only has 50 cals.  The Dora's guns are hard to hit anything with for some reason.

For all around fighting the PonyD has it all. Speed, maneuverability, excellent views, good acceleration, lots of fuel, can take a fair amount of ordinance.

Learn to read a book as you fly, it will help with boredom.

Nonsense on the cannons.  Unless you are going to fly a Tyffie or Tempest all the time, or a CHog.  I use the F4U-1 and -1D in exactly the same manner (at least when entering the fight initially), and if you are shooting using convergence as your guide then .50s are just as deadly as any cannon, and you can be more free with the ammo.  I choose the F4U for the same reasons you laid out for the Pony, and I'd take a Hog over a Pony any day if it gets down and dirty.  

Of course, there are guys who would say the same thing about the Jug.

[humble]

1st...

Alt is relative....you need about 2k advantage...more than that is often less....since excess speed kills as well. There is a big difference between "E" fighting & B&Z....

2nd....

Speed differential is more important than your actual speed....

3rd....

 "see and assess" is mumblespeak...in air combat you are either proactive or reactive. Your goal is to use your superior tactical position to force the action...

4th...

You have as many enemies as are around...you do however select a single "target" at a time...retaining your focus on that one plane exclusively results in tunnel vision.

5th...

You can't have a single plan like that...for example I'll often come in from the 4 or 8 position...less checked then the 6 many times. you also cant assume suprise. True "cherries" are few and far between....

6th....

You shoot if you have a shot...again you "read & react"...if the con goes in to a nose low tightening turn..your alt & excess speed just set you up for the dreaded "drex shot you down" or such message. fly right and the shot happens...chase the shot and die....

7th....

Just flat out wrong, you never ever "blow thru" if your E fighting. E fighting is the death of a thousand cuts. A good E fighter never extends more than 2.5 out once he engages. Always above never below & never giving you time to reaccess or retrim or regain your SA...just always there forcing your hand, taking your E until your a low slow wallowing piece of barely moving metal to busy fighting gravity to avoid the kill shot....

8th....

done correctly, you have nothing to assess.....

E fighters are relentless merciless stone cold killers who leave no doubt that they smacked the snot out of you....dont confuse them with the either the C@ndyoscar shoot & scoot bozo's or the switchblade toting hide in the weeds assassins like my friend foder.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack

Don't be afraid to press your BnZ attacks.  The object is to make the enemy burn his E that it sets up an angle for you to shoot at.  

ack-ack

Originally posted by humble
E fighting is the death of a thousand cuts. A good E fighter never extends more than 2.5 out once he engages. Always above never below & never giving you time to reaccess or retrim or regain your SA...just always there forcing your hand, taking your E until your a low slow wallowing piece of barely moving metal to busy fighting gravity to avoid the kill shot....

humble

That's the rubber band. Sometimes it goes out a ways, sometimes it snaps right back. But never far enough out for you to regain what you've lost.

Low in a spitty that's a fight.  Low in a spitty with a bore and zoomer above is a sleeping pill

[DieAz]

Hartmann's tactics can be boring.
Marseille's tactics is fun.


for the ones that are starting out learning BnZ, try Hartmann's way.
for the ones that want to go a little more advanced in BnZ, try Marseille's way.

from what I have been reading, Marseille was by far more deadly than Hartmann was.

Hans-Joachim Marseille : The Star of Africa.  

[Shuckins]

Thanks for the input guys.  

As I said, I'm experimenting with the bnz style...and need to refine it.  

I fly the F6F almost exclusively, and find that it is a perfectly adequate bnz aircraft which has the ability to maneuver if the situation requires it.  

The 50 cals are devastating at a firing range of 200, and seldom require excessive time on target.

When making a pass, I tend to keep my control movements as gentle as possible in order to conserve energy.  If the target pulls into a high g turn, I will go sometimes go into a low g vertical turn, trying to stay about 1k to1.5k above him near his 5 or 7 o'clock positions.  This allows me to keep him in sight and easily correct for his evasive actions.  I them make short dives for his tail, causing him to take more high g evasives, bleeding his energy.

Ack-Ack, I'll keep your instructions in mind about extending too far before going vertical.  

Appreciate any further suggestions you can make.

Regards, Shuckins

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by DieAz
Hartmann's tactics can be boring.
Marseille's tactics is fun.


for the ones that are starting out learning BnZ, try Hartmann's way.
for the ones that want to go a little more advanced in BnZ, try Marseille's way.

from what I have been reading, Marseille was by far more deadly than Hartmann was.

Hans-Joachim Marseille : The Star of Africa.  

I couldnt have said it better.  

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Shuckins


Ack-Ack, I'll keep your instructions in mind about extending too far before going vertical.  

Appreciate any further suggestions you can make.

Regards, Shuckins

Search the Intertardnet for BulletHead's wonderful lectures on E management and BnZ fighting.  Probably the best write up on the subject for us arm chair aces.  Rocketman's lectures as well as Worr's are first rate and those I'm sure can be found on NetAces.org.


ack-ack