What is a personal attack?

[ygsmilo]

The O Club always reminded me of the two most common elements in the universe,

Hydrogen and Stupidity.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Toad
I don't think any of us have any input into that call though.

Two questions:

If we do come to that place, how will HT know how many of the potentially thousands of posters have arrived there? (Bears on the first point above.)
 
If some how the community arrives at that place and someone crosses the line..... what then? We point fingers? Stand and gawk? E-mail Skuzzy? What's the solution to avoiding/countering another "Aruba" thread? Because you and I both know that it will happen. Nature of the "open BBS" beast, isn't it?

Harrrrrrrrrrrrr!  30 lashes for the unrepentent ring leaders of the mutiny!  Mr. Pyro, lash them to the gratings! Mr. Skuzzy, sharpen the claws on the Cat!

I can't believe I'm saying this. I can't belive that we can't tell the difference.

But okay, when there is no ambiguity as to what constitutes a personal attack, then it is incumbent upon US to weed these guys out. As they come. As it happens.

We know who they are. They have crept into our midst like weeds. They'll continue to do so. And it is up to us to first agree to some set of ground rules. And when those are broken, it is up to us to call them on it.

We haven't done that.

We've either liked, in general, what they said as it has leaned to one side or the other, propping up this argument or that, or we just didn't care.

Done it myself: "man that guy is an arse, but it's funny watching the other side twitch on account of it."

Problem is.... Now we lost the OC. Just gone. It may have been funny, or easy, to watch that guy antagonize people, but now there's nothing left.

We can't allow it.

[Toad]

Now, how do you actually do it in practice?

Take a hypothetical:

Someone starts an outrageous thread, full of racism, sexual gender bashing, obscenity and personal attacks on other BBS personalities.

400 posters chime in censuring the original poster.  No one supports him.

He lashes back at each one becoming more outrageous with every post.

What do you DO? (Assuming you don't have what Rude used to wishfully ask for, "the button" to "disappear" the offender from the BBS forever more.)

Solve that, you may have an answer.

[SlapShot]

Nash .. you have got to be joking.

And it is up to us to first agree to some set of ground rules. And when those are broken, it is up to us to call them on it.

The ground rules were already set by HTC ... they were stickied in each forum and they were summarily dismissed in the O'Club with incredible consistency.

Here are the killers ...

4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.

7- Members should remember this board is aimed at a general audience. Posting pornographic or generally offensive text, images, links, etc. will not be tolerated. This includes attempts to bypass the profanity filter.

You all knew what they were when Pyro posted them and ya didn't call anybody on them then ... but now you will ?

I can still hear my son saying ... "Dad ... I promise I will never do it again ... please give me back my hot wheels car and I will be a good boy ... I promise I promise ... really ... I do"

[Nash]

That's an extreme example, Toad, but ya gotta start somewhere.

In my mind, that is basically utopian. You have the entire community drowning him out.

Sure, he may get away with a few inflammatory posts, but he aint gonna get traction and he's gonna move on.

What's more real is the intra-thread arguments that break out. When person X says " you know what, you're a real dick" or "Americans are a bunch of hooligans."

The line gets finer. The definition more taxed. The result unclear.

[Nash]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Nash .. you have got to be joking.

Unfortunately, no - I am not. Because....

Even though: "You all knew what they were when Pyro posted them..." it is all too apparent that we didn't.

Hence this thread.

[Drunky]

Another Zen moment...

You are all idiots and your efforts are futile.

Relax.  Go away for a while.

Spend time with your parents.  Go visit your sister and her husband.  Your brother wants to go fishing with you.  There is a novel you haven't finished.

With the same feverish pitch and headlong attitude that created the it, everyone is trying to solve THE PROBLEM in the same way.  Most of the problems that people cause can be solved by backing away from the problem and letting it sort itself out.

Interesting idea follows:  Instead of people trying to solve the problem, perhaps people should abstain from the problem.  Hum?

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Drunky
Another Zen moment...

You are all idiots and your efforts are futile.

Relax.  Go away for a while.

Spend time with your parents.  Go visit your sister and her husband.  Your brother wants to go fishing with you.  There is a novel you haven't finished.

With the same feverish pitch and headlong attitude that created the it, everyone is trying to solve THE PROBLEM in the same way.  Most of the problems that people cause can be solved by backing away from the problem and letting it sort itself out.

Interesting idea follows:  Instead of people trying to solve the problem, perhaps people should abstain from the problem.  Hum?

You better go have a few more beers ... you are making way too much sense. Remember ... you have a reputation to uphold.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Nash
That's an extreme example, Toad, but ya gotta start somewhere.

[/b]

Sure it is. I was trying to be as clear as possible.

In my mind, that is basically utopian. You have the entire community drowning him out.

But we both know that will not happen. Further, there are some that won't be drowned out and I bet we could both name 5 past or present in 20 seconds or less. Some folks are just that way.

Sure, he may get away with a few inflammatory posts, but he aint gonna get traction and he's gonna move on.

Did someone mention utopian?  

The line gets finer. The definition more taxed. The result unclear.

I'm afraid Slap is right. The result isn't unclear at all.

You'll have some that will play by the rules because that is their nature and normal "mode".

You will have some that will play by the rules because, while they don't want to, they feel the have too.

You will have some that will play by the rules for a while and then feel they warrant a special exception.

Then you'll have those who will gleefully accept the challenge of pushing the envelope from the very start just for the reaction it garners. The griefers, if you will.

Now, I shall retire. I admire your effort but I think you count too much on your fellow posters to be "touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."  (A. Lincoln)

[BigR]

This is a Private Board with rules. I imagine the board mods decide what a personal attack is. They always warn before taking any action. Using common sense would be nice. If you have to ask if something is a personal attack, it probably is. This is a free country and you are welcome to go make your own board and make up your own rules. The reason the rules are there in the first place is to ensure that the board remains useful. If conversations degrade into multi page hate fests, what good is that?

[Nash]

(Toad - point well taken. Good night)

When it says "No personal attacks".... what does that mean to you?

2 examples:

Perhaps by someone attacking someone's beliefs, they can be said to be attacking the person who holds those beliefs, because by attacking those beliefs, they mock the people who hold those beliefs.

Or...

Perhaps not, because an attack on someone's beliefs is an attack on those beliefs alone, and not the people who hold them.

Can you seperate them?

Now consider politics.... left/right.

When one attacks right/left wing principles, can you attack those principles without offending those who keep them?

No wonder all the offence.

How do we solve this?

Is the phrase "personal attack" even appropriate? Because I think it's all personal. I don't think there's a way to escape that. If you hold something to be true, and then someone else tells you that it's not true, it will be personal; an attack on a myriad of things: your beliefs, your values, your sense of right/wrong, your judgement. It will be a personal attack. No way around it.

That's why people lash out. And that's why personal attacks escalate to personal attacks.

[NUKE]

Nash, you are thinking too much. It's really not an issue regarding the definition and interpretaion of personal attacks, imo.

[Nash]

Go ahead Nuke.

[GreenCloud]

too much reading and no pics

this is beating a dead horse into an Elmers Glue Bottle

[Nash]

As much as you dug posting dune buggy threads in the OC, there is no more OC, and they are way OT here in the GD.

So there is no more posting of dune buggies.

You don't get it.