What is a personal attack?

[Nash]

This post goes towards cleaning up our own mess. HTC aint our mom. That's not their job. And they are not our translators nor are we in grade 3 detention.

There was a sticky post in the OC that had a list of rules. What good are the rules if we don't understand them? One of the first is: "No personal attacks."

What does that mean, no personal attacks?

So lets figure this out. Consider this an OC type debate. The first in a few, maybe.

The question is: "What is a personal attack?"

Here's the ambiguity:

"Sandman you suck, because...." vs "French people suck because..."

What is a personal attack?

Go.

[Pooh21]

nash you are a SOB!


and you stink


and I hate your mom


thta is all personal attack

[Nash]

Very good, Pooh.

[Nash]

Is "Gawdamned socialist hippy commies" or "neo-Nazi republicans" a personal attack?

[Slurpee]

you dang dummy!

[Nash]

Originally posted by Slurpee
you dang dummy!

If that was an example of a personal attack, you obviously haven't visited the OC.

[Nash]

Okay, let me give you an example (to the best of my recollection).

I know at one point in time, one of my posts said "Martlet, you are a complete idiot."

In another, I said "Nuke, I think you are deceitful, because you..."

In another, I said "shreck you..."

In another, I said "Toad, the reason why your arguments seem to me to fail so often is because...."

Those are all personall attacks.

Two of them I think are valid, and two of them I think were just reactionary vitriol.

I aint asking HTC - I'm asking you. What's the difference between the two types?

[Sandman]

Wikipedia says...

[Toad]

First of all you (*@$%5   )@&%)&   @))__%&#   @%%## Canadian, Pyro said:

Pyro:

In the meantime, do not bring O'club traffic to this or other forums.

So, you )*&$@#$#5@    &)@%%@@@, this thread isn't supposed to even be here. What are you a )  (@%T70-0  )"@$@@ that can't even read?

Besides, you're just a @%)_6#)(@    @&*@$##%_   ?@%&@@ anyway so you shouldn't even be posting.














How's that for an example of a personal attack?

[Nash]

Pretty good. But it aint helping.

I kinda had guys particularly like you in mind when I was hoping that we could fix this ourselves.

[Toad]

Hey, you wanted to know what a personal attack was... not me.

I already know it's an ad hominem.

As to us saving the O'Club, there's one big hurdle to clear first. HT, Pyro and Skuzz have to decide it's worth the bandwidth/trouble.

Then and only then will the new ground rules be posted. I have this funny feeling it'll be what THEY decide. They're probably letting that other thread run just to let folks vent. I kinda doubt they're looking to it for ideas. Maybe, but Dale never struck me as one in need of guidance from us on something of that nature. He seems to have a clear idea of how he wants things to go in this area.

Moderators? I dunno. I just have this strong feeling that if they reinstate it at all, it will be a much different place.

The did try Mods in the MA with what I'd have to call mixed success. I think (when a mod is online) the MA seems more controlled, although there's always the 2 year old whining "Mommy, what'd I do? Billy did worse! Billy said "doo-doo"." And there's the inevitable threads about moderator abusing the poor children that routinely pop up in the General Discussion.

Dare we really think O'Club moderators wouldn't generate the same response?

As far as fixing it ourselves with no magic internet powers, I doubt that.

Peer pressure in the O'Club only seems to make the pressured ones more disagreeable/outrageous. Aruba thread submitted as Exhibit A, your honor.

Setting the proper example? Once again, I don't see it working. There's some mighty polite intelligent folks in the O. Have you ever seen Seagoon really be anything less than polite? There's other good examples as well and I won't try to name them all as I'll miss some and feel bad later. Point being, good examples have always been there and seem to have little effect on the abusive posters.

So after peer pressure and setting the good example, what's left? The ignore button? I suppose we could all ignore the true jerks. But that option has always been there and if it was used, it was also ineffective.

Those are my thoughts.

....and now you will cause us all to be hauled before Captain's Mast, Mr. Nash. I expect at least 20 of the best with the cat for each of us in this thread. Harrrrrrrrrr!

[VOR]

Originally posted by Nash
Is "Gawdamned socialist hippy commies" or "neo-Nazi republicans" a personal attack?

Not necessarily, as long as the moderators agree with you. Otherwise, yes.

[Nash]

Harrrrr!

Originally posted by Toad
As to us saving the O'Club, there's on big hurdle to clear first. HT, Pyro and Skuzz have to decide it's worth the bandwidth/trouble

There's an even bigger hurdle to clear, my friend. That is that we ourselves are even worth the trouble.

If we can't comprehend simple english.... and if we don't understand the meaning of "personal attack".... then there's just no point. Tank it. Cuz it aint gonna get better. 'Cuz we don't understand.

My hope is that we'll come to a place where we do understand what constitutes a personal attack. When we do, we'll know if either us or anyone else has crossed that line. And we'll know if or why we deserved censure.

Not because we agreed with the rules. And definitely NOT because we misunderstood them. But because they were the rules, and we DID understand them. And we broke them. And we recognize what constitutes breaking them.

A simple point.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Nash
There's an even bigger hurdle to clear, my friend. That is that we ourselves are even worth the trouble.

[/b]

I don't think any of us have any input into that call though.

My hope is that we'll come to a place where we do understand what constitutes a personal attack. When we do, we'll know if either us or anyone else has crossed that line. And we'll know if or why we deserved censure.

[/b]

Two questions:

If we do come to that place, how will HT know how many of the potentially thousands of posters have arrived there? (Bears on the first point above.)
 
If some how the community arrives at that place and someone crosses the line..... what then? We point fingers? Stand and gawk? E-mail Skuzzy? What's the solution to avoiding/countering another "Aruba" thread? Because you and I both know that it will happen. Nature of the "open BBS" beast, isn't it?

Harrrrrrrrrrrrr!  30 lashes for the unrepentent ring leaders of the mutiny!  Mr. Pyro, lash them to the gratings! Mr. Skuzzy, sharpen the claws on the Cat!

[NUKE]

There will always be "personal" attacks in the O'Club. The question isn't weather members can understand the rules, it's weather HTC wants to deal with moderating.

I personally wish there were no moderation,  I take Lazs' for the most part... but it's HTC's business and reputation.

When Pyro stated that HTC "witnessed the complete degradation of that forum ", it was a huge overstatment. The O'Club didn't desintigrate really.....just a few people did. What disintigrated was the desire to moderate and deal with  the forum, I believe.