The end of Palestine?

[Hangtime]

Whelp.. the extremists have made their play... and Israel is replying. Both the US and Israel have pointed their fingers at Arafat.

Looks like a lose/lose deal for Palestine.

Can we afford to have the 'Palestinian State' situation set back 20 years?

Clearly, Arafat must deliver the Hamas leaders to Israel or be exiled or assasinated himself. To do so may result in a complete loss of credibility and authority with his own people.. he may be killed by his own palestinian extremists if he's seen as bowing to the demands of Israel.

Damn.. this is getting very ugly, and I can only assume that very soon, the Palestinian Authority will be destroyed and the advances toward statehood for the Palestinians will become a sad memory...

Looks like a third party is needed in the region to salvage what little is left of the peace process.. somebody other than the US or Israel to 'take custody' of the Hammas extrimist leaders that Arafat has arrested.. or peace in the Middle East will be impossible.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Hangtime:
Looks like a third party is needed in the region to salvage what little is left of the peace process.. somebody other than the US or Israel to 'take custody' of the Hammas extrimist leaders that Arafat has arrested.. or peace in the Middle East will be impossible.

whoever they stuck in there would only be able to control one side of the conflict, the Israeli's. THe Palestine nutto's with tnt crammed up their arse would still continue to blow up innocents while running to Allah and their allotted 72 virgins.

Nope, time for them and anyone who sides with their murderous ways to go.

Just wonder how big a load Arafat dropped in his pants when the 3 missiles landed 20 yards outside his door..his best play would be to throw his hands up and move to the states before he's six feet under from one side or the other.

[Raubvogel]

Unfortunately, I don't think Arafat has much in the way of actual power anymore.

[Staga]

Truck (bus?) loads of people will die and maybe few people in A300/737/747/A380 and buildings they hit too.

We have already seen where this leads. Funniest thing is it looks like people doesn't learn  

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Raubvogel:
Unfortunately, I don't think Arafat has much in the way of actual power anymore.

He has as much power as The Queen does in UK.
Come to think of it, Arafat IS a queen too!  

[Gunthr]

I find it chilling that, according to Chris Matthews of "Hardball", poll after poll shows that 75% or more of regular Palestinians are in favor of suicide bombings of innocent Israeli people to retaliate or achieve political goals.

I'm begining to wonder if it makes any difference WHO is leading the Palestinians...

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Gunthr:
I find it chilling that, according to Chris Matthews of "Hardball", poll after poll shows that 75% or more of regular Palestinians are in favor of suicide bombings of innocent Israeli people to retaliate or achieve political goals.

I'm begining to wonder if it makes any difference WHO is leading the Palestinians...

Gunther,

I don't think ANYONE is leading the palistinians. That may be a key part of the problem.

Until the atmosphere of hatred cools there ain't gonna be any respite from this tragedy.

Killing for the sake of God is like screwing for the sake of virginity. If God wants you dead, how long do you think you'll live anyhow??????


 

[Udie]

I for one am having a very tough time finding any compassion for palestine.  The memory of them dancing in the strees on 9-11 is still etched in my memory.  Short of building a 2 mile high 2,000 ft thick titanium wall to seperate them I don't know how we or they are going to stop this.  We've had "peacekeepers" there before and it didn't work.  Are we ready to lose another 200 marines over there?

[mrfish]

not much to say in defense of the palestinians really. i cant even defend that move. you its bad when i cant step to the plate for them. what a stupid move.

i mean in a moral, defensive sense, they are justified resisting israelis by whatever means necessary since they are an unwanted  and brutal occupying force, i don't have a shred of sympathy for any of those israelis at all, but if the palestinians want a state they should've been cool!

wtf does distancing the u.s. accomplish? what kind of victory could possibly be gained?? yeah "li'li'li'li' die for allah!!" - yeh thats great guy.... and now you really will die for allah and put your cause back 20 yrs...great move...nice shot...

...and getting a token state determined by jewish lobbyists in the u.s. is really the only way out of slavery for them - it isnt much, but its the best they can make out of this

- i mean they'll never get their rightful land back since we are obedient lil' doggies in israels pocket. they should take anything they can get in the interests of their people. atleast with their own land they could have some dignity instead of being shoved around by israeli bullies.

stupid, stupid, stupid....at this point i think the whole place should be razed to make way for disneyland middle-east and some vacation condos.

screw all of them, they bring down the overall mood of the world and i wouldnt miss any of them...let the nukes fly, they're gettin old anyway we need to use them on something...

[Eagler]

Originally posted by Staga:
Truck (bus?) loads of people will die and maybe few people in A300/737/747/A380 and buildings they hit too.

We have already seen where this leads. Funniest thing is it looks like people doesn't learn  

I don't find any of it funny. What is your suggestion, we all move to finland and back & stand for nothing?
There are ppl who are not happy in this world unless they are hurting/killing others. They look for excuses to "justify" their warped arse causes....

gotta agree with mrfish, I'm sick and tired of the whole thing. It's like a sore that doesn't heal, a big scab on a 4 year old's knee that he keeps picking off no matter how many times his mother tells him not too...

[Gunthr]

What really mucks this thing up is how the other Muslim countries rally around this issue, or manipulate it to their own ends.

Iraq for instance, recently warned that it would "swallow Israel whole" if the USA attacks Bagdad for it's terrorist activities. Iraq may very well possess dirty-type nuclear devices, too. Makes you wonder which way Iran, Syria, Yemen et al would flop
if USA attacks Iraq, and Iraq unloads on Israel.

Then you've got the Paki's and India with nukes, practically at war over Kashmir to make things really interesting...

[Staga]

Eagler terrorists have already used busses (couple times per month, sometimes more), ships (Achille Lauro), metro-trains (Tokyo) and lots of aeroplanes to make their point and I'm sure we will see something new and original someday.

Keep supporting Israel and enjoy the ride  

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Staga ]

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Udie:
I for one am having a very tough time finding any compassion for palestine.  The memory of them dancing in the strees on 9-11 is still etched in my memory.  Short of building a 2 mile high 2,000 ft thick titanium wall to seperate them I don't know how we or they are going to stop this.  We've had "peacekeepers" there before and it didn't work.  Are we ready to lose another 200 marines over there?

The 200 marines were in Lebannon, not Palestine, also a dozen or so people celebrating 11-9-01 hardly constitutes a people, and
Peacekeepers do work in the areas they occupy like the Golan, and Sinai.
Isreal would never tolerate a proper UN peacekeeping force in the occupied territories because then they might not be able to roll in their tanks whenever they feel like it to evict some more palenstinian villages to make way for Isreali settlers.

  Tronsky

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: -tronski- ]

[Hangtime]

I can't see a solution thats mutually palatable to any of the three sides... the arab world, the palestinians or the israeli's.

My suggestion... since the USA has the most to lose long term from instability there, it's time to take hard action. Lets take custody of the Palistinian Authoritys Hammas prisoners (arafat has arrested more than 100 since sunday) and try them by tribunal.

Next, we establish and control the borders ourselves between Palestine and Israel, we evict jewish settlers in violation of the camp david accords and explain to Israel that over border incursions by it's armed forces for ANY reason is not acceptable.

Then we take over the public education of the Palestinians, (hate schools) oversee their Police, eliminate Hammas and the other extrimist groups and try and keep the two sides from getting at each other for 20 years or so.

We'll lose troops, we'll be hated and reviled, but 11 million palestinians and 23 million jews might just live long enuff to see another generation live in peace there.

(flame suit on)

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Staga:

Keep supporting Israel and enjoy the ride    

You do realize, of course, that after the actions of September 11th it is now impossible for America to cease supporting Israel.  Regardless of the merits of pulling out of the Middle East, America and its allies cannot allow terrorists to believe that the murder of thousands of innocents influences policy to their liking.  If anything, it's imperative to show that terrorist actions produce exactly the opposite reaction sought.

This is why terrorism is ultimately so freaking moronic.  Does Hamas expect that Israel's reaction to bombing buses will be anything less than a massive retaliation?  Did Bin Laden actually expect that ramming some jets into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon would actually cause America to withdraw from the Middle East in fear?  If anything, these actions have unified resistence to the objectives of the terrorists.  I was surprised by a poll I read in Business Week yesterday that showed that pre-September 11th support for President Bush among American liberals was around 25%... after September 11th, it's at 75%.  In the span of several hours, terrorists managed to alienate about the only voices of support they may have enjoyed within the United States.

Extremism begets extremism.

-- Todd/Leviathn