Author Topic: Woman joins Air Force Thunderbirds (Read 1246 times)

eagl · « **Reply #30 on:** June 17, 2005, 12:30:28 PM »

Sandman,

Want me to pass along your... erm... "congratulations"? She works right across the street from my office.

For what it's worth, she's a good pilot and well respected in the squadrons.

Furious · « **Reply #31 on:** June 17, 2005, 12:36:26 PM »

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Originally posted by culero
...I do take your point (that there's a larger team involved) but IMO what you are arguing is akin to a semantic quibble...

Yeah, you try to sell that crap to a thunderbird.

My father was not a pilot, but he was a thunderbird.

Toad · « **Reply #32 on:** June 17, 2005, 12:37:45 PM »

Eagl, tell her I said "Congrats!" if you see her and I look forward to watching her at an airshow.

Hangtime · « **Reply #33 on:** June 17, 2005, 12:40:27 PM »

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Originally posted by Morpheus
Did I really ask you why? I dont seem to remember asking you. Maybe you can direct me to where it was I said this.

But sinse you felt the need to comment, the very least you could do is back your opinion up with something substantial. Substantial is not, "I am an old timer with old timer opinions".

So far you have given me no solid evidence as to why a woman is not suited to fill the position of a combat fighter pilot. Neither has lazs. But he also has yet to respond.

What evidence to I need to give? None. Its all right in front of you. Why you think the Air Force is handing out meal tickets is your problem, and misguided assumption.

Yesterdays standards maybe? What were they? If you could give birth then you werent suited to fight in combat? Fly fighters? Fire a gun? What?

I would bet every last penny I have that 99% here, couldnt do what she does. What you said is disrespectful to not only to her, but to the Air Force as a whole.

But who am I to say right?

That's right.. 'who are you to say'... the only accurate statement in the above post.

I've neither suggested that the AF is handing out meal tickets, disrespected the Captain or her accomplishment nor found fault with the reasoning behind her appointment.

I did attempt to explain why old guys like me clinch up with the prospect of women in Harms Way. Didn't say is was right, only WHY.

You either can't or won't open yer mind, as such; dissussion with you on the topic is pointless.

mauser · « **Reply #34 on:** June 17, 2005, 12:58:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eagl
Sandman,

Want me to pass along your... erm... "congratulations"? She works right across the street from my office.

For what it's worth, she's a good pilot and well respected in the squadrons.

Congrats to her!! I only have an inkling of an idea of how difficult it is just to get to be a fighter pilot in the USAF (there was a very brief "reality" type TV series showing four guys going through training to be F-15 pilots). I envy you all, .

Last time the Thunderbirds were here was two years ago I think. Sometimes it sucks to be waaay out here. I look forward to seeing them again.

mauser

Morpheus · « **Reply #35 on:** June 17, 2005, 01:29:16 PM »

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That's right.. 'who are you to say'... the only accurate statement in the above post.

If not me then who? eagl? Ok if he's not good enough then it couldnt have been the countless number of superior officers who she stood before? Could it?

None of what you say holds any water.

What am I saposed to say to...

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I also explained that what goes though my old school brain is not compatible with todays military thinking regarding women in combat roles..

other than to call it for the bullchit that it is?

Quote

I did attempt to explain why old guys like me clinch up with the prospect of women in Harms Way. Didn't say is was right, only WHY.

Yes, yes you did. What I took away from your "explanation" was that you're intimidated by a woman who has vastly superior abilities, those of which you lack.

Walk a mile in her shoes. Then you can come back here and tell me she doesnt have what it takes to fly a fighter. Oh wait.

JB73 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 17, 2005, 01:38:05 PM »

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Originally posted by Cobra412
I was stationed with her. Good to see not only a woman but an F-15 pilot get into the Thunderbirds.

did you hit it? cause i would

Furious · « **Reply #37 on:** June 17, 2005, 01:40:52 PM »

uh,, right. roofies?

Hangtime · « **Reply #38 on:** June 17, 2005, 02:00:59 PM »

Morph, yer barking up an empty tree.

lazs2 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 17, 2005, 02:13:30 PM »

eagl... be honest.. say you are flying in the thundrbirds and something goes wrong... you have to choose to crash into her plane or some guys... no other choice.

These guys are all volunteers tho... if they don't like it they can quit.

Not so with the military and combat. Like hang says.. we are conditioned to treat women a certain way (as it should be) or... maybe it is just instictual... either way..

they don't belong in combat where those kinds of things should not be a factor in the decision making.

lazs

Yeager · « **Reply #40 on:** June 17, 2005, 02:14:57 PM »

MALACHOWSKI, NICOLE M E

http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/offprom/CY04%20Promotion%20Boards/CY04A%20Major%20Line%20Sel%20M%20O.htm

She is in line for promotion to Major

eagl · « **Reply #41 on:** June 17, 2005, 02:30:35 PM »

Lazs

To be honest, in the air it never comes up, even subconsciously. I've seen tapes of guys literally dying trying to save another guy, so having a girl up there doesn't change the equation especially after she's "proven herself" by going through the same training everyone else accomplishes.

I'm not sure how it works in the Army where you can actually SEE the other people, but when flying the training usually kicks in and overrides personal concerns. Those who can't leave their emotions in their lockers on the ground tend to wash out or get killed.

I worry more about some of the guys than I would about Capt Malachowski. I know she can handle herself. We have one set of flying rules, one set of standards, and we are extremely hard on ourselves about meeting and upholding the standards. That means that nobody gets any extra consideration for any reason. It's harsh and makes life pretty tough on those who struggle being as good as everyone else, but that's one of the things that separates our AF from the forces of some other nations.

Heck, my female cousin was a medic in her vehicle maintenance unit and after working with her awhile, they made her the standard driver for their "gunship" armored humvee. They didn't care that she was a girl, they just wanted the best driver behind the wheel of the vehicle that was the toughest to drive, the one that they'd count on when the shxt went down. I think most of the US military has adapted. That doesn't mean that given their choice the guys wouldn't follow their instincts and keep the women and children out of harm's way, but it means that they've learned (or been indoctrinated) to separate those feelings from their daily routine, to the point where for most troops it just doesn't matter anymore.

Besides, after you've gotten gunned mercilessly by a female weapons school grad a couple of times, you pretty much tend look to her for help instead of following a foolish and misplaced sense of chivalry by trying to watch out for her more than you would anyone else.

It's a tough world and in the end, maybe it helps to remember that there are some damn smart and tough women out there who volunteered to help defend our little part of the world.

Sandman · « **Reply #42 on:** June 17, 2005, 04:04:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eagl
Sandman,

Want me to pass along your... erm... "congratulations"? She works right across the street from my office.

For what it's worth, she's a good pilot and well respected in the squadrons.

Sure... score me an 8x10 glossy while you're at it.

GtoRA2 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 17, 2005, 04:28:23 PM »

I am sure she will do fine or they will drop her.

Good for her for making it though.

Best part of this thread is Hangtimes point sailing so far over Morpeus's head he never even saw it.

bustr · « **Reply #44 on:** June 17, 2005, 05:50:58 PM »

Hangtime,

Times have changed a bit. I'm from your generation and have similare reactions. The instinctive response to keep women and children from harms way is basic survival of the species. Allowing women to be slaughtered on the battel feild in the numbers we once did would mean species suicide. The human species can be rebuilt from a disaster as long as you have a handfull of males and large pool of females. We forget in these modern times that the source of our survival is our females.

War untill recently was a very physically violent affair. Now with technology ones mind and ability to use it in concert with the technology becomes the primary divider of the chaff from the wheat. Yes with technologies help in our new age style of warfare women are equal to men.

God forbid if we have another global war that decends back into the all consuming physical brutalality and casulties of previous centuries. Wars like that border on species survival and only a fool would suggest placing the species source of survival in harms way.

War is not some Politically Correct game of gender equality. We should really have warning bells going off in the animal part of our brains shouting at us that something is wrong in sending our femals off to die. When the war is over, who's left to make children? Seems like a dumb species survival strategy to me.