mmmmriiiiiight.

[Raider179]

Here is what happens when you let Haliburton build something..

From 2002...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/attack/jan02/10737.asp

Soldiers from domestic military bases began arriving Sunday at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to help build maximum-security jails for up to 2,000 prisoners from Afghanistan.

The jails in Cuba are being built to accommodate an initial group of about 100 prisoners and could be finished within a week or two, according to Capt. Tom Crosson, a spokesman for the U.S. Southern Command, which oversees Guantanamo.

The United States is now holding more than 300 prisoners.

Officials said the jails could cost between $5 million and $10 million, though other estimates have been higher.



1) GITMO should have already have enough room to house the prisoners. There should not be a reason for a "new" jail.

2) Supposed to have been built to house 2000 prisoners for between $5-10 million.

Haliburton gets a contract that says..."An air-conditioned two-story prison, known as Detention Camp #6, will be built at Guantanamo to house 220 men. It will include exercise areas, medical and dental spaces as well as a security control room, the contract announcement said." oh and lets not forget the fence...

Jeez what a scam. Why a new facility? If criminals in AZ can live in a tent city with that crazy bellybutton sheriff then so can gitmo terrorists.

[jEEZY]

Originally posted by Sandman
Cheney is the vice president and former CEO of Haliburton. Not sure of the amount, but estimates of his stock in Haliburtion exceeds $60 Million.
 

As an employee of the federal govt I can say without hesitation that the VP does not control his finances. Most, if not all, executives, and judges, place their investment assets into blind trusts in order to dispell anytype of conflict. And generally when there is a conflict, the conflicted person is taken from the decision loop.

As for the Haliburton deal, these decisions are made by Contracting Officers, who are not political appointees, and are generally (with a few notable exceptions, Boeing lady) on the up and up. It would be very, very bad, and immediatly known (these contracts are regularly audited) if Dick got on the phone with a CO and said--hey throw Haliburton a bone on this contract.

The fact is that there probably isnt any other company qualified (that is a term of art in govt contracts) to build a prison on a military base. So even if they opened this contract up for bidding the result would probably remain the same.

[Raider179]

Flash to 2004


 They have given way to Camp
Delta, a dusty sprawl of cellblocks and interrogation trailers, pockmarked by
guard towers, girdled by rings of razor wire. Kellogg, Brown & Root, the
construction arm of Vice President Dick Cheney's old company Halliburton, is
set to build more cells, guard barracks, and interrogation rooms by mid-2004,
bringing detainee capacity to 1,000 -- and Halliburton's overall income from
Guantánamo to $135 million. Guantánamo -- "Gitmo" to the 2,500 Americans who
serve there -- has become an institution.

[airbumba]

Why award another contract to a company you're already investigating for fraudulant billing practices?

[jEEZY]

innocent until proven guilty..if found guilty they will be "debarred" from future contracts

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by rpm
Do you not understand what a conflict of interest is?

Let's say a guy gets a job in charge of Billions of dollars of public funds and needs to construct a new public building. There are 2 companies that built them in the past. One just happens to be owned in part by him and has a long history of overbilling. It would be unethical for that company to do the job because of the percieved conflict of interest. Not to mention, they have a history of padding the bill.

Thank you for failing to answer the question, again, as usual.

Cheney has no direct control over Haliburton, nor whether or not they get the contracts.

You PERCEIVE a conflict of interest, therefore one exists, in YOUR mind. You base it not on facts in evidence, but rather on your perception.

Cheney's holdings are in a BLIND TRUST. Cheney DOES NOT have control of the awarding of contracts.

IF you have PROOF that Cheney's holdings are NOT in a blind trust, as required by law, OR that Cheney has control of the awarding of the contracts, OR that Cheney has control of or is pressuring some one who DOES control the awarding of the contracts PLEASE post it here. Bring real proof, not "he said she said" from unverified sources.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Raider179
Jeez what a scam. Why a new facility? If criminals in AZ can live in a tent city with that crazy bellybutton sheriff then so can gitmo terrorists.

I don't think Amnesty International would agree with you. (From AI/UK in 2002).

Housing detainees in Guantanamo in 6x8-feet chain-link 'cages' at least partially open to the elements would also fall below minimum standards for humane treatment," the organisation said. Standards for the treatment of detainees require adequate shelter from the elements. The cage size would be less than that considered acceptable under US standards for ordinary prisoners confined to cells.

 I think the Red Cross has made a few complaints on housing to the US government but they don't publish their findings.

Like it or not, there's a "war for perception" going on right now to; Gitmo is being used as an example of US bararism.. remember AI's "gulag" comment recently?

So, perhaps putting them all up in new digs the equivalent of a 1st class hotel is the counter.

I don't think it'll work. You could house each one in one of SH's palaces and they'd still be martyrs to some. Seems like even if you had actual film of one of them slicing Dan Pearle's throat, Pearle would be somehow shown as the evil one and the slicer would be a poor downtrodden misunderstood victim of US aggression.

That's my perception.

[Gunslinger]

here's what I just don't understand.

No one has deemd fit to inform the public that the dept. of deffense has relied on B&R (the subsidiary of Haliburton) to practically build every military base of operations in the middle east and balkins for the last 10 years.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

It's not like cheny just came into office all of a sudden and BAM they now get all the contracts.  They work with the military ALL THE TIME!

PS if the DOD let the VP influence their decision that would be an investigatable offense by the IG.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Raider179


Jeez what a scam. Why a new facility? If criminals in AZ can live in a tent city with that crazy bellybutton sheriff then so can gitmo terrorists.

Because, while you can treat American citizens any way you want, anywhere in the world, the U.S. MUST treat its enemies as if they were foreign dignitaries and heads of state, on diplomatioc missions. At least according to Amnesty International.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
here's what I just don't understand.

No one has deemd fit to inform the public that the dept. of deffense has relied on B&R (the subsidiary of Haliburton) to practically build every military base of operations in the middle east and balkins for the last 10 years.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

It's not like cheny just came into office all of a sudden and BAM they now get all the contracts.  They work with the military ALL THE TIME!

PS if the DOD let the VP influence their decision that would be an investigatable offense by the IG.

Well, see what you don't understand, is that a certain segment of society with a certain agenda perceives a conflict of interest, therefore a conflict of interest does indeed exist, regardless of whether or not any facts exist to support the existentce of a conflict of interest.

I hope that makes it perfectly clear to you.

All kidding aside, I've been trying to figure it out for 4 years now. No one can provide me with a reasonable explanation either. I do get a lot of "OH MY GOD! Cheney<---->Haliburton! OH MY GOD, DON'T YOU GET IT? But no substantive expalnations.

[JB88]

Originally posted by Mini D
Sure thing JB... just seems like a ripsnortian cut and paste mission from you since the O'Club has been back. I'd hope you'd be able to see the difference between someone saying something is getting old and you "being told not to do it", but I see I've hoped for too much.

As for the whole "Halliburton Contract" issue: You'd think that no congressman from any committee would have any idea that halliburton is an issue. I mean, the VP tells them who to award contracts to and they do it... right? I mean, it's easy to sway the same group over and over and over. It's not like they read the news or anything like that. Nah, they just get "swayed" all the time. Those poor lemmings.

many many many people either work for the executive branch or are appointed by the executive branch or have a deep loyalty to it.

if you have ever had a job you should understand how such things work.

buttkeesers are butt keesers and favors are favors and they dont just up and quit when someone isnt in the private sector.  

i mean come on.  

even if there isnt any "sway" happening then the DOD needs to get its head out of its rear and understand that there is a severe perception of favoritism happening here.

there is also a large group of persons who think that guantanamo is bunk.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts



All kidding aside, I've been trying to figure it out for 4 years now. No one can provide me with a reasonable explanation either. I do get a lot of "OH MY GOD! Cheney<---->Haliburton! OH MY GOD, DON'T YOU GET IT? But no substantive expalnations.

A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday.

The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company.

Without naming Cheney or Halliburton, the service reported that unexercised stock options and deferred salary "are among those benefits described by the Office of Government Ethics as 'retained ties' or 'linkages' to one's former employer.

According to The Post, while Cheney was defense secretary the Pentagon chose Halliburton subsidiary Brown & Root to study the cost effectiveness of outsourcing some military operations to private contractors. Based on the results of the study, the Pentagon hired Brown & Root to implement an outsourcing plan. Cheney became Halliburton CEO in 1995.



433,000 unexercised options of stock sounds like a good way to me to make money. Especially once you have a hand in boosting the company's profits through the roof.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

When it comes to the kind of work that Haliburton and their subsidiaries like KBR do for the DoD and the military, having many friends who serve and depend on the services provided by those companies, I'm NOT inclined to see those people even POSSIBLY suffer due to a PERCEPTION.

We ask a lot of our military personnel, if Haliburton and its subsidiaries do a decent job and satisfy their needs and a lot of their wants, then unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Haliburton is really ripping everyone off, then dealing with Haliburton and the PERCEPTION of a conflict of interest isn't a big deal. There's a BIG difference between PERCEPTION and the FACTS those people deal with on the ground in service to the country.

I find the FACTS to be more important than the PERCEPTION.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
When it comes to the kind of work that Haliburton and their subsidiaries like KBR do for the DoD and the military, having many friends who serve and depend on the services provided by those companies, I'm NOT inclined to see those people even POSSIBLY suffer due to a PERCEPTION.

We ask a lot of our military personnel, if Haliburton and its subsidiaries do a decent job and satisfy their needs and a lot of their wants, then unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Haliburton is really ripping everyone off, then dealing with Haliburton and the PERCEPTION of a conflict of interest isn't a big deal. There's a BIG difference between PERCEPTION and the FACTS those people deal with on the ground in service to the country.

I find the FACTS to be more important than the PERCEPTION.

Here are some facts for you then.

1)Charging US $1.70/gallon for gas in the middle east.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100202,00.html

 Two Democratic lawmakers say Vice President Dick Cheney's (search) former company, Halliburton (search), is gouging U.S. taxpayers while importing gasoline into Iraq. The Houston-based company contends it is paying the best price possible.

Reps. Henry Waxman (search) of California and John Dingell (search) of Michigan complained to the Bush administration that Halliburton's KBR subsidiary is billing the Army between $1.62 and $1.70 per gallon, while the average price for Middle East gasoline is 71 cents.

They also complained that Iraqis are charged between 4 cents and 15 cents at the pump for the imported gasoline.

2)Operating inside of Countries known to have US sanctions against them.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7119752/

Yet, in January, Halliburton won a contract to drill at a huge Iranian gas field called Pars, which an Iranian government spokesman said "served the interests" of Iran.  

"I am baffled that any American company would want to have employees operating in Iran," says Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine. "I would think they'd be ashamed."  

Still, Halliburton stands out because its operations in Iran are now under a federal criminal investigation. Government sources say the focus is on whether the company set out to illegally evade the sanctions imposed ten years ago.

3)And finally bribery...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4163810/

The Justice Department has opened up an  inquiry into whether Halliburton Co. was  involved in the payment of $180 million in possible kickbacks to obtain contracts to build a natural gas plant in Nigeria during a period in the late 1990’s when Vice President Dick Cheney was chairman of the company, Newsweek has learned.


These are Facts, and they cause suspicion as to why a company that screws over its clients repeatedly, keeps on winning bids.

[JB88]

yep.  there it is.