Author Topic: M16 armour  (Read 1158 times)

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2005, 07:29:26 AM »
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One hit to any firearm or AA gun would most likely render it inoperable. Again, not to mention 50-100 hits.


 That's quite irrelevant, as the 'durability' of objects set by the game is at an arbitrary point which HT deems suitable for gameplay.

 Remember that we have a CV that takes 8,000lbs to kill, when in real life few 500lbers might be able to sink a capital ship. We also have a light  hangar construction which takes quite a few 1,000lbs bombs to kill. Pretty tough for a thin-walled, unarmoured, wood/aluminum structure I'd say.

 So, whether a firearm would be damaged with one 50cals or one hundred 50cals, is a moot point.


 ...

 The only thing that matters is how many rounds it is currently required for a .50 round to hit and destroy an ack.

 One or two 20mm HE round with a grenade type of blast effect can destroy a single ack in the game. According to scJazz's testings, a typical 20mm round is abour 3~4 times more powerful than a typical .50 round.

 So, it would require 3~6 direct hits on the ack with a .50 round to kill it. If we assume a middle point and say it takes 5 rounds of 50cal hit to kill a single ack, a typical average pilot with 5% gunnery accuracy needs to fire 100 rounds to get just those 5 hits.


 You call it BS, I call it simple logic. Acks are very small targets. They are stationary, but also very thin.
 
 The fact is, people aren't just as accurate as they claim to be when they shoot at the ack. Nor do they have a clue as to how much rounds they are really landing on the ack.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2005, 07:45:31 AM »
I just tested it.

 It takes 5 rounds of .50cals to kill a single ack with default lethality settings.

Offline jetb123

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« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2005, 01:00:58 PM »
in what? A m3? If your in a 51 that sprays ammo how could you test this?

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2005, 09:47:33 PM »
The M3 uses the same M2 Browning as aircraft do.

 HT mentions that ground structures don't matter at what ranged they were fired at - which indicates that differences in kinetic energy don't count against ground structures.

 Thus, if it takes 5 rounds in a 1x M2 .50 in a M3 to kill an ack, it will take the same 5 rounds to kill an ack with a P-51.

 Gotta face the facts: wing armament has its pros and cons. And shooting at teeney targets with pinpoint accuracy(since the .50 is not a HE round) is not one of its pros.

Offline dedalos

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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2005, 09:28:02 AM »
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The M3 uses the same M2 Browning as aircraft do.

 HT mentions that ground structures don't matter at what ranged they were fired at - which indicates that differences in kinetic energy don't count against ground structures.

 Thus, if it takes 5 rounds in a 1x M2 .50 in a M3 to kill an ack, it will take the same 5 rounds to kill an ack with a P-51.

 Gotta face the facts: wing armament has its pros and cons. And shooting at teeney targets with pinpoint accuracy(since the .50 is not a HE round) is not one of its pros.


That would mean that I cannot put 5 rounds on a field gun in three passes?  My aim is bad, but . . . . .
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2005, 08:45:26 PM »
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That would mean that I cannot put 5 rounds on a field gun in three passes? My aim is bad, but . . . . .


 Yup!  :)

 The problem is that the ack is long and thin.

 A maneuvering plane maybe difficult to shoot at, but at least it has broad surfaces which the dispersed bullets can land on as an "area". Instead, the ack is long and thin and the .50 shells must land EXACTLY on the ack itself, as a "line". And it seems that with typical US-style wing armament, the convergence issues make it even harder.

 A simple test can be done with SBDs or TBMs - it is remarkably more easier to knock acks with these planes with merely 2x .50s, instead of Corsairs or Mustangs or even Jugs for that matter. The SBD and TBM both have nose armamament.

 To be fair, I'd say that your aim is probably very good dedalos, but when it comes to landing .50 hits on the ack, you just can't beat the system with that particular armament style.

Offline jetb123

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« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2005, 06:32:35 AM »
I have film of my m3 shooting a flak osty about 10 times and poping its turret. WITH
1 50 cal. Now i really wish i could do this with other 50 cals. I would glady show film but no host. :(

Offline Furball

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« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2005, 06:55:42 AM »
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Originally posted by jetb123
I have film of my m3 shooting a flak osty about 10 times and poping its turret. WITH
1 50 cal. Now i really wish i could do this with other 50 cals. I would glady show film but no host. :(


i have done that before, you gotta aim for slot where gun/gunsight is. :)

he then proceeded to kill me with hull gun. :(
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Offline SCDR

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« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2005, 07:37:36 AM »
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Trying to defend last night in Ostis, myself and several other defenders kept getting our turrents knocked out by F6Fs. One pass *POOF* no turrent. :mad:

It seems the Allies didn't have to worry too much about German air defense artillery.

Sorry buddy, but unless you have film to send in, HTC will not
believe the one pass "POOF" turret out.
Yeah like we all turn on gun cam in gvs. Right.:rolleyes:

SCDR

Offline Furball

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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2005, 11:18:17 AM »
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Trying to defend last night in Ostis, myself and several other defenders kept getting our turrents knocked out by F6Fs. One pass *POOF* no turrent. :mad:

It seems the Allies didn't have to worry too much about German air defense artillery.


Quote
Originally posted by SCDR
Sorry buddy, but unless you have film to send in, HTC will not
believe the one pass "POOF" turret out.
Yeah like we all turn on gun cam in gvs. Right.:rolleyes:

SCDR


yeah, i mean it sucks.  big time.

why would 50cals or cannon shells shooting down into an open topped ground vehicle with all the crew crammed into a small space kill them.  its ludicrous.  absolute BS.



:rolleyes:
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Offline SCDR

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« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2005, 08:56:02 AM »
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Originally posted by Furball
yeah, i mean it sucks.  big time.

why would 50cals or cannon shells shooting down into an open topped ground vehicle with all the crew crammed into a small space kill them.  its ludicrous.  absolute BS.



:rolleyes:

Dude, I'm not saying it is not impossible. Guess I have the bad luck of having
the "eagle eyed sharp shooter" pilots around whenever I up an osti, so it only
takes them 1 pass and my turret is out.  It's just frustrating.
Oh, BTW HT already called BS when I made a comment about one pass turret
out in another thread. Which, to me, means he thinks it is not a common occurance.

SCDR
« Last Edit: June 19, 2005, 09:00:35 AM by SCDR »

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2005, 11:00:59 AM »
I have a halftrack at our shop.

The armour is 1/4" face hardened steel over all the vehicle except the forward windscreen which is half inch face hardened steel.

A .30 cal w/ standard military ball will penetrate the vehicle in all locations except the fwd windscreen at 400 yds.

a .50 will pop through it at almost all ranges.

The armour on the turret is not super thick, and the spray produced by hits will put most everyone out of action in the vehicle almost immediately.  

An Armour Piercing rnd, if it does not hit a vital, will likely push through a vehicle and leave it only with a hole in its sides.... that would be bad for a crew inside, but the vehicle will definitely be usable provided no vitals are hit.

Personally I think the Halftrack is too strong in here, but those are my opinions...
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Offline Furball

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« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2005, 04:48:13 PM »
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Originally posted by SCDR
Dude, I'm not saying it is not impossible. Guess I have the bad luck of having
the "eagle eyed sharp shooter" pilots around whenever I up an osti, so it only
takes them 1 pass and my turret is out.  It's just frustrating.

SCDR



ok....

open topped GV.

f6f comes in for strafe....

it has 6 x 50cal machine guns, each one firing at (guesstimate) 500 rounds per minute.

6 x 500 = 3,000

it fires a 2 second burst onto the target, walking the fire to the turret.

3,000 / 60 (seconds) x 2 = 100


That is 100 rounds, shot at a couple of guys sitting there, in an open topped vehicle in a 2 second burst,  sounds like they would get hit and killed/injured pretty easily to me.

.303's should be even more lethal vs. ostwind turrets.
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