Author Topic: A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)  (Read 3262 times)

Offline Kweassa

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2005, 08:54:56 PM »
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The fact that it runs away so well will remain..... 44 versions were on average a couple of Km/hr slower than 45 versions however all were working toward the same standard. Unfortunately La7 manufacturing production control was simply not as consistant in mid 44 as it was in early 45.


 This is a somewhat digression from the original thread but I gotta ask. Tilt, I was always wondering about this.

 The difference between the '44 and '45 La-7s might not be large, but IMO it does present larger problems with the La-5FN.

 Now, in past discussions in the A/V forums, I seem to recall that our La-5FN is too, a '44 version. A '43 La-5FN performed upto a certain margin worse.

 What gets me here is that I also recall that these '43 La-5FNs with less speed and severely limited emergency power, is due to quality control issues rather than technical issues.

 IIRC, HTC will not consider variances of performance due to quality problems as an acceptable modelling standard. All planes of all countries had some variances due to these problems, and especially in the case countries losing the war, it would be serious.

 I'm kinda stumped that the La-5FN we pit against '43 Luftwaffe models in Eastern Front scenarios, that have the ideal, perfect performance a La-5FN can ever reach, may be in fact not represantative at all. Sorta like our '44 Typhoon with initial design flaws (and somewhat less performance?) pitted against '42 planes in scenarios..

 So, if the opportunity ever rises, should there ever be modelled a separate '43 La-5FN as compared to the '44 La-5FN we have?

 I think it could be a good idea - 1C Maddox with their IL2/FB uses this kinda modelling standards. Some planes are varied by the year of their service introduction date. They got 3~4 Spit5 versions according to the year they served in the war.

 Perhaps AH can benefit from that kind of standard too. Modelling '43 Spit9s, '44 Spit9s... '44 190D-9s and '45 190D-9s... '41 Spit5s and '42 Spit5s... etc etc.. ??

Offline bj229r

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #76 on: June 27, 2005, 09:16:11 PM »
If they have a 1945 Russian plane, why cant they have a 1945 P47? Seriously doubt the whole arena will be flyin P47M
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Offline Tilt

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #77 on: June 28, 2005, 04:50:40 AM »
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Originally posted by Kweassa
So, if the opportunity ever rises, should there ever be modelled a separate '43 La-5FN as compared to the '44 La-5FN we have?

 



Your point re the non modelling of production control/quality issues is valid  certainly for VVS ac.

The difference in 44La7 to 45La7 (other than the cannon) is purely yhe consistant development toward a difined quality standard.

Very late 45La7's also had additional air intake filters, better radios and some even benifitted from coupled throttle/mixture controls..but none of this really affects our La7 IMO.

The main areas that were consitantly addressed (across all lavochkins) was panel fit and excess use of glue/resin which could add weight to the total construction. Panel fit was often corrected in the field. It was after all only the engine cowlings.

re the La5fn.

Most of the La5's in early 43 were the La5F (normally asperated) and although the 2nd La5FN prototype was committed to production in March 43 it was not introduced as originally intended.

The 2nd prototype had a production target weight (all up) of 3200kgs it was also the first Lavochkin to use metal wing spars. However there were many la5F wooden sparred wings already made so the new plane went into production with those and an all up weight of 3300kgs.

Due to shortages of the injected  ash 82 FNV the La5f continued production as well. Indeed the largest production plant at Gorky did not swing totally over to the La5FN until October.

So what you see is a mismash of interim types appearing over the course of 43. such as

La5f std
La5f metal spar (after mid 43 Gorky)
La5FN wooden spar (upto mid 43)
La5FN std after mid 43.

On top of this is the usuall battle with poor fit and excess resin/glue used a a very heavy filler.

Re WEP and the La5FN.

Rechlin data suggest that the La5FN they had was capable of a full 10 mins at 2500rpm but (IIRC) limit its use to lower alts. Other than this I have yet to find data supporting extensive use of WEP certainly Czech pilots in 44 were told not to use it longer than 2 minutes.

How could HTC model this lot?

Well La5FN engines could be modelled to heat up under WEP a little quicker than now.

A mid 43 (Kursk) La5FN could be modelled with wooden spars and little heavier by 100 kg but this would add potentially other problems to modelling a 4 set fuel tank instead of the 3 set we have for the metal sparred La7 and La5FN.

The alternative is to add the La5F.

Your point re HTC not modelling production quality variants is well made and problematic whan considering the La7 and some IJN/IJA variants.

However it could be argued that a wooden sparred La5FN is as different from std  as a non paddle bladed P47N would be prior its addition.

For me the easy solution is to separate the 3 cannon La7 as a distinct model. There are other reasons to do this. Latest rendering we have now are improving leaps and bounds over the original shapes adopted for lavochkins. The gun bubbles for the 3 cannon version are not the same as the 2 cannon and I see no way to reproduce this faithfully apart from creating two simialr but quite separate ac.

I actually believe that HTC will eventually do this when it comes time to re render the Lavochkins............I like to think that their priorities are elsewhere right now.
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Offline dedalos

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #78 on: June 28, 2005, 08:33:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Perhaps AH can benefit from that kind of standard too. Modelling '43 Spit9s, '44 Spit9s... '44 190D-9s and '45 190D-9s... '41 Spit5s and '42 Spit5s... etc etc.. ??


And people would chose to use . . . ?
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

storch

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #79 on: June 28, 2005, 08:34:50 AM »
the entire vvs as well as IJF plane list should be expanded and that expansion should include a 1943/44 La7.  personally I prefer to fly it with the two cannon option as it gives me 200 rounds per gun as opposed to 150.  the only thing I like the La7 for is base defense and in that role it is near perfection.

Offline dedalos

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #80 on: June 28, 2005, 08:40:25 AM »
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+

Perking the C Hog did reduce its usage quite a bit.  That is emprically measurable.But what perking the C Hog didn't do was to produce an arena with more diversity. This thread an the multitudes of others like it prove that fact.


Tell you what else these threads prove.  WAY too many people blaming an airplane for their lack of skill.  Everyone talks about 44 and 45 versions, 2 or 3 cannons, LA7s everywhere, LA7 is really a fast Spit,  LA7s running, bla bla bla bla.  I was on for 2 hour last night.  I saw 2 LAs and one turned out to be an LA5 (They both fought).  Twice I was sarounded by atlist 5 P51s (Lame BnZ attempts) and several times by Spits (handed me my arse).  Where are all those LA7s you people are talking about? Leme guess, dieing on the runways right?
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline SkyRock

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #81 on: June 28, 2005, 09:17:34 AM »
I agree with Dedalos, besides, the only reason why most newbs fly the la7 and N1K2 is the view out the back.  I remember when I was a newb last week, I flew only la7's and N1K2's because noone told me how to set views.:D

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Offline humble

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #82 on: June 28, 2005, 10:18:02 AM »
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Originally posted by Karnak
In the end we still need a 1944 and a 1945 La-7.  Right now we only have the 1945 La-7 and that makes it not so useful for 1944 scenarios.


Actually I believe we have a very late model La-5FN...basically the last upgrade before the la-7. The la-7 is basically a cleaned up la-5....not all that much difference between our la-5 and the 1st la-7's...

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Offline Kweassa

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #83 on: June 28, 2005, 01:33:37 PM »
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I actually believe that HTC will eventually do this when it comes time to re render the Lavochkins............I like to think that their priorities are elsewhere right now.


 Hmmm.. got it.


 Perhaps, AH should also go the way of IL2/FB/AEP/PF, and offer multiple versions of variants according to timeline.

 It certainly seems the RAF Spitfires can benefir from it, and perhaps soothe the frustrations against the La-7.

 Besides, AH can model 3~4 versions of the same variant and claim it has over 100 planes to fly with too! :D

Offline Despair

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #84 on: June 28, 2005, 01:49:59 PM »
if this game becomes too skill oriented, HTC is gonna lose half player base at least.

Offline onions4u

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #85 on: June 28, 2005, 01:54:11 PM »
We had a way of slowing the la7s in AH 1. you could pork fuel down to 25%. But people complained because only a few would re-supply.

Offline dedalos

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #86 on: June 28, 2005, 02:07:12 PM »
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Originally posted by onions4u
We had a way of slowing the la7s in AH 1. you could pork fuel down to 25%. But people complained because only a few would re-supply.


Yes, now at 75% fuel they are unstopable with ther 10mins of flying time.  What do you care any way?  Are the lalas too uber for your 5" guns?  
It seems you are another one of those greatly affected by the redicilus number of lalas.  Or do y ou only care cause it has 3 guns and not 2?

Why exactly are they bothering you again?
:rofl :lol

From your last tour:

Ship Gunner    46 0
Panzer IV H    28 29
Tiger I            23 0
Ostwind        10 11
B-26B            5 6
Typhoon IB    4 2

Oh why not,  here is the one before that:
Ship Gunner   54 0
Panzer IV H   48 30
Ostwind        32 10
Tiger I           10 4
M-8                9 4
B-26B            8 4
A-20G           2 0
PT Boat        2 3
B-24J           2 2
LVTA4          2 2
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline straffo

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #87 on: June 28, 2005, 02:14:50 PM »
Touché Dedalos :)

Offline dedalos

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #88 on: June 28, 2005, 02:20:59 PM »
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Originally posted by straffo
Touché Dedalos :)


:lol Sorry, bored at work


again, lol
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline SuperDud

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A solution to Lavochkin La-7 (wheter you like it or not)
« Reply #89 on: June 28, 2005, 02:54:15 PM »
I h@t3 teh L33T LaLa. It needs perked, and perked now! A LaLa can get 5 bizzilion miles with 10 mins of fuel as it screams along on the deck. Then it HOes you and runs when it misses in a horde of other LaLa's. Why don't the LaLa guys learn to fly a more challenging plane? All you people saying it's no big deal and how much skill u have are wrong and/or dillusional. Anyone with a clue can out fly you b/c the machine gives them so many adv. IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!
SuperDud
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