Author Topic: I've heard of "gun nuts" before, but...... (Read 1200 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 28, 2005, 09:10:47 AM »

"I could see giving that right back, after a clean probationary period of like 5 years or something, I suppose. On the other hand, if you rob a bank and shoot and kill someone in the process, you shouldn't be getting out of prison anyhow...you should be put down. "

sob... I think we do agree on that. You are restaing what I said.

But... As for the poor misguided drunk driver not knowing what he is doing.... that is absurd...everyone knows that driving drunk is much more dangerous than carrying a gun around and thousands of times more likely to result in disaster.

Texas has the right idea on that.

and yes.. the BATF should be a convienence store... there actually were lots of stores that were just that only a few decades ago right here in Kalifornia.... they no longer exist... do we have less crime and murder? Are we safer now? Are people more or less polite now?

lazs

SOB · « **Reply #46 on:** June 28, 2005, 12:52:12 PM »

Yeah, drunk driving is dangerous and stupid, and anyone should know that. I didn't compare it to carrying a gun though, I compared it to pointing a gun at someone and firing it. One is certain to cause damage and quite possibly death. The other is just a lot more likely to do so than driving sober. What's the rule in Texas on drunk driving?

lazs2 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 28, 2005, 02:44:51 PM »

My point was that I agree with you.. there should be some loss of right to have a gun if you commit a crime with it but... that time should probly equal about the time you spent in the slam over it... served at the same time so that when you got out in 30 years... you should have your rights restored... same for drunk driving.

lazs

SOB · « **Reply #48 on:** June 28, 2005, 05:07:02 PM »

Yeah, but rather than concurrently, I think you should have a cooling-off period after you get out, to make it clear that you're ready to play nice with the rest of society.

lazs2 · « **Reply #49 on:** June 29, 2005, 09:03:22 AM »

well.. my point is that if jail is to rehabilitate or even punish... either way... if it didn't do the job then it wasn't long enough.

I would abolish all parole and all early releases. You do your time... you pay your debt and you start over.

you vote, you get your gun back and you report to no one. You did your time.. we think it is safe to let you go... you are reinstated as a human.... good luck.

lazs

beet1e · « **Reply #50 on:** June 29, 2005, 09:49:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
You did your time.. we think it is safe to let you go... you are reinstated as a human.... good luck.

The problem with that is that it is a known fact that more than half of prisoners released reoffend within 2 years. Well that's the UK rate anyway.

Editorial about British prisons here.

dedalos · « **Reply #51 on:** June 29, 2005, 10:12:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
well.. my point is that if jail is to rehabilitate or even punish... either way... if it didn't do the job then it wasn't long enough.

I would abolish all parole and all early releases. You do your time... you pay your debt and you start over.

you vote, you get your gun back and you report to no one. You did your time.. we think it is safe to let you go... you are reinstated as a human.... good luck.

lazs

You are half way correct. Jails are there to punish but they do not reform. Most of the times, you come out worst than you went in. On top of that, after comming out, your records indicate that you have been in jail making it almost impossible to get a decent job. Since you have not been reformed, you have no money or job, chances are you will be doing what to support what ever habits you had before or developed while in jail?

So, you do your time but just because you are released, your debt is not paid. We don't think it is safe to let you go. You are just safer than the next aplicant. So, you are let out of the cell, but my no means you are done paing. In anycase, we need to be able to deffend ourselfs from them, not they from us. So, we should be able to have guns, not them.

beet1e · « **Reply #52 on:** June 29, 2005, 10:33:00 AM »

dedalos - I tend to agree with you. There was a movie I saw - I think it had Charles Bronson in the lead role) about a prisoner who was released on parole, subject to about 6 conditions of parole. Through no fault of his own, he found himself breaking every one of them just to survive. As you said, he couldn't get a job, had no money etc.

lazs2 · « **Reply #53 on:** June 29, 2005, 03:22:00 PM »

I think the very fact that there are so many restriction on a person on parole makes it harder for them to join the rank and file.

This was not allways the case and people realized that people change over the years. Seems the more restrictions we put on people getting out early and the shorter the sentances... the worse things get not...... better.

We have plenty of protection from people who would abuse the right to bear arms.... we can hunt em down and jail em or kill em.

Those who would normally have to resort to illegal (acording to their parole) means, would not be breaking the law to arm themselves in their own defense. We wouldn't be artificialy making criminals of them and they would know that abusing their rights would not pay...

If they couldn't or wouldn't figure that out we would then imprison or kill them.

lazs

dedalos · « **Reply #54 on:** June 29, 2005, 04:05:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I think the very fact that there are so many restriction on a person on parole makes it harder for them to join the rank and file.

This was not allways the case and people realized that people change over the years. Seems the more restrictions we put on people getting out early and the shorter the sentances... the worse things get not...... better.

We have plenty of protection from people who would abuse the right to bear arms.... we can hunt em down and jail em or kill em.

Those who would normally have to resort to illegal (acording to their parole) means, would not be breaking the law to arm themselves in their own defense. We wouldn't be artificialy making criminals of them and they would know that abusing their rights would not pay...

If they couldn't or wouldn't figure that out we would then imprison or kill them.

lazs

Lazs,

You like having guns. Thats fine. That does not mean someone on parole should have one. People don't change. Rights come with responcibilities. If you have been responcible no one has taken your right to deffend yourself with a gun. The way you describe the situation is like the guy is doomed because he cannot cary a gun to deffend himself. Deffend from what? Its only an excuse to carry one.

My father in law is a cop in Chicago. 18th district (thats Cabrini Green). He works plain clothes night shift for about 25 years now. According to him, he has fired his gun during work hours twice. I am pretty sure someone on parole could survive without one.

As far as chasing people after they abuse the right, well, its kind of too late dont you think? Why wait till someone gets hurt again? They have proven not to be safe. And maybe, if they dont have the right to have one, you may not have to use yours in self deffence (which I am sure happens a lot

)

lazs2 · « **Reply #55 on:** June 30, 2005, 08:57:09 AM »

I do not want people on parole to have a gun.

I do not want people to be able to be out amoung us "on parole".

I do not want a person who has his wife or girfriend say he hit her to lose the right to arm himself or his drivers licence or his right to vote or right to free speech.

It is really very simple. I don't want people with criminal intent out amoung us. When we catch em we shoul punish em... the rehabilitation is time and/or death.

I am not so naive that I think telling a hardened criminal that we will let him out but he must obey even more rules than the ones he ignored to get in prison in the first place.... is gonna work. I don't think he is gonna obey the no guns for you law if he really wants one anyway.

lazs