fireworks laws

[beet1e]

Maybe.  - still makes me laugh to think of you guys applying for a permit to get a bottle rocket.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by beet1e
Maybe.  - still makes me laugh to think of you guys applying for a permit to get a bottle rocket.

Hey till a few years ago you hadta apply for a licence  to be able to buy the engines for model rockets.


Which reminds me. How many of those things you think it  would take to hoist a can of butane into the air?

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by beet1e
The danger is probably more real here! The houses tend to be closer together, and the plots smaller. Nov. 5 is the busiest night of the year for the fire service.

The biggest fire risk is of a major conflagration that could take hundreds or thousands of homes.

There is almost no comparison.  Much of the US is far worse than Britain could ever be as far as fire danger goes.  Britain is a pretty wet, mostly urban place.  Many parts of the US have very dry seasons or spells.  Dryness, combined with wind poses the biggest risk and potential for major fires.  Once a fire gets seriously going in a dry windy place, there is no stopping it.  Parts of the US (like where I live now, Ohio) have very small fire risk.  Even during a dry spell here its safer than much of the rest of the US ever gets.  The west coast, Rockies and Alaska have major burns quite often.

About the only way to get a good unstoppable fire going in Britain is with a few hundred Heinkle 111s; they’ve got to break the water mains first though.

eskimo

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by beet1e
Maybe.  - still makes me laugh to think of you guys applying for a permit to get a bottle rocket.

Depends on where you are at; in much of the US citizens can buy any class-C fireworks.  In other places it’s none.  Many places are somewhere in-between.  It helps cut down on the fire risk in the urban interface.  In the urban areas the laws help cut down on punk kids shooting fireworks at each other, property and other citizens.  Permits often prove that the buyer lives in a legal or safe zone.

eskimo

[beet1e]

Eskimo2 - are you saying that the restrictions on fireworks purchases in the US are purely because of fire risk considerations? Even in Washington state, which is notorious for rainfall, a permit is required for a bottle rocket! The northeast US is not dissimilar to Britain, hence it became known as "New England" The climate in Maine is not searing hot like parts of the south. And yet in Maine, the fireworks restrictions are among the toughest.

Bottle Rockets:         With Permit Only
     Sky Rockets:    With Permit Only
     Roman Candles:    With Permit Only
     Firecrackers:    With Permit Only
     Sparklers:    Legally Allowed
     Smoke and Punk:    With Permit Only
     Fountains:    With Permit Only
     Missiles:    With Permit Only
     Novelties:    Legally Allowed
     Crackle and Strobe:    With Permit Only
     Parachutes:    With Permit Only
     Wheels and Spinners:    With Permit Only
     Sky Flyers:    With Permit Only
     Display Shells:    With Permit Only
     Aerial Items (Cakes):    With Permit Only

Yes, England has a lot of urban areas, and that was my point. The houses can be close together, so that when we let loose those big rockets, their remains are almost certain to land on someone else's property.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by beet1e
Eskimo2 - are you saying that the restrictions on fireworks purchases in the US are purely because of fire risk considerations? Even in Washington state, which is notorious for rainfall, a permit is required for a bottle rocket! The northeast US is not dissimilar to Britain, hence it became known as "New England" The climate in Maine is not searing hot like parts of the south. And yet in Maine, the fireworks restrictions are among the toughest.

 

Apparently Maine has a stick up its butt, so?...

Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, England has a lot of urban areas, and that was my point. The houses can be close together, so that when we let loose those big rockets, their remains are almost certain to land on someone else's property.

So?

[beet1e]

So...

Much of the US is far worse than Britain could ever be as far as fire danger goes. Britain is a pretty wet, mostly urban place. Many parts of the US have very dry seasons or spells. Dryness, combined with wind poses the biggest risk and potential for major fires.

...your argument that the fireworks restrictions exist purely because of perceived fire hazards does not hold water. I could understand it if fireworks were not permitted in certain dry areas during heatwaves, but Washington State??? Maine??? Even here in Blighty, we get forest fires, eg. in the New Forest. But although the main fireworks season is in November when is is damp or even wet usually, we can buy fireworks all year round. Not many shops stock them though, except in the run up to Guy Fawkes night.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by beet1e
Even in Washington state, which is notorious for rainfall, a permit is required for a bottle rocket!

3/4 of Washington is dry, as is Oregon.

 

The eastern slopes of the Cascades are dry forests and can look like this in the summer:



Even the Coast Range can burn  

Bottle rockets AFAIK are not 'permitted'; they are illegal... however they are easily available anyway.  A parallel for your favorite subject.

[Jackal1]

Beet, I`m curious..... what does the people of your country use fireworks to celebrate?
  I was also wondering if the bottle rockets there are fired in pairs. Yaknow, one to kick the other one`s *** and send it home.

[eskimo2]

I gave you two reasons, but never said that it was limited only those two.  I’m sure that there are places in the US where fireworks are banned purely because of a few whiney ninnies.  There are probably other reasons as well.  The US is made up of 50 states, each state has many counties and cities.  I have no idea why Maine has its fireworks laws; they do have a lot of forests though.  I have no idea if they ever get dry; never been there.

Clearly the biggest and most common reason in the US however, is fire danger.  
If fireworks are used in a low fire danger area sporadically, because it’s not a traditional fireworks night, fire department can keep up.  On the 4th, however, there could be hundreds of fires at once; no fire department could keep up.  Like I said, there is no comparison of the fire danger in Britain and much of the US.

eskimo

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The eastern slopes of the Cascades are dry forests and can look like this in the summer:

Yes I know. I've flown in the Cascades area - but how many dwellings are there in that area, from which fireworks could be released? It's called the Three Sisters Wilderness area, and for good reason. If the fire hazard is so bad, is a permit required to smoke a cigarette?

About the only way to get a good unstoppable fire going in Britain is with a few hundred Heinkle 111s; they’ve got to break the water mains first though.

You're quite wrong. Here's a picture of Ashdown Forest, around Easter 1984. 600 acres burned.



Source: http://www.ashdownforest.org/html/fire.html

The above wasn't an isolated incident either:

Fires can have a devastating effect on the Forest. In 1984, on the Easter Bank Holiday weekend, over 600 acres were burned in one accidental fire. Every year, in the spring, the Rangers and local Fire Brigades attend a dozen fires, which can vary in size from a small patch to many hectares.

- and that's just one forest...

Jackal1 - The answer to your Q is in my first post in this thread.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by beet1e

Jackal1 - The answer to your Q is in my first post in this thread.

  No it`s not. There is nothing in that post concerning firing bottle rockets in pairs.

[eskimo2]

You have to go back 20 years to find a 600 acre fire?

In Alaska alone last year 5,000,000 acres burned.  Alaska did not dominate the US fire stories last year either.  
Like I said, no comparison.

eskimo

[Toad]

But 600 acres is a lot of ground in England. That's almost a square mile!

England proper (without Scotland and Wales) is about  50,000 square miles.

So you have to put it in perspective; Kansas has only 82,282 square miles, 15th in the nation.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by beet1e
Yes I know. I've flown in the Cascades area - but how many dwellings are there in that area, from which fireworks could be released? It's called the Three Sisters Wilderness area, and for good reason. If the fire hazard is so bad, is a permit required to smoke a cigarette?

100,000 people in the Bend area now.  Spokane, Pasco, Wenatchee, all have people too.  

When you flew the C150 from Mahlon Sweet to Bend, you could have still flown east a good three hours and still been in Oregon, and all that time you would be flying over high desert and dry forest.

When forest fire danger is high, they shut down all commercial forest operations, and I think I remember even ban smoking when extreme.

from New Mexico State Forestry Dept
Smoldering cigarettes can start fires hours after being dropped or thrown away. Never toss cigarettes out of cars. Be aware of smoking restrictions in Forests, National Parks, BLM, and other public lands. Smoking may be restricted to inside vehicles or in paved parking areas.