Author Topic: Coach Shotguns  (Read 1833 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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Coach Shotguns
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2006, 09:33:53 AM »
Well, I got caught.  Didn't think to check the date, even though I don't remember this thread starting.
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2006, 10:14:33 AM »
If such is the case then I applaud Halo for a job well done.  :aok

Offline Furball

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« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2006, 11:21:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

(means he looks like a zombie who just finished a meal)

lazs


i would be surfing the AH BBS looking for brains to eat, but i know that it is a waste of time... :D
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storch

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« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2006, 11:28:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
i would be surfing the AH BBS looking for brains to eat, but i know that it is a waste of time... :D
on the other hand if you were looking for crap to eat you could just go to your squad bbs and eat a small country's fill.  just saying.  :aok

Offline Furball

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« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2006, 11:30:26 AM »
do you spend your day just going around and looking for threads which BK's just posted in?
I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
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storch

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« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2006, 11:57:57 AM »
yes ma'am some days I do.  why do you ask?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2006, 02:51:01 PM »
storch is the guy I never like to talk to...  He has no sense of humor but feels he has a highly developed one.

He  is one person who can keep me from retorting tho....  it is just embarassing to be in the same thread.   There is no good answer to his 4th grade "I know you are but what am I" style.

just participating lowers your IQ 5 points.   What works with my grand daughter is to ignore that type of arguement...  I should do the same here but.... hearing it from a supposedly grown man is disconcerting.    Even for me.

lazs

Offline Estel

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Re: Coach Shotguns
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2006, 02:53:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halo
What do you think of coach shotguns, the 18-inch or 20-inch double barrel shotguns enjoying a revival in western style shooting events?  

Talked with a guy today as he was buying a double barrel 20-inch, 12-gauge coach shotgun for his wife.  They live in the mountains and are being bothered more and more by black bears.  



2-barrel 12 will be ok not only against bears :) If to discuss about 20 inch or 18.... Really it's not very important when you shooting bullets. Anyway, it will be effective on 20-30 meters and not more. The muzzle length and it's narrow is important only for case-shot and barley-corn(? in russian it's "drob'"). In this case it's a usual self-defence shotgun. So, something easy, without triggers and with cylindrical drilling will be enough.

Offline Halo

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« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2006, 09:50:19 PM »
Er, ahem, you gotta admit I have perseverence since this thread was highjacked in more directions than a totally unchoked 12-gauge (okay, admittedly a severely strained simile, analogy, whatever).

Point being, home defense is a serious issue and I wanted to learn and share whatever merits a coach shotgun might have for the Aces High community.

So bear (good pun) with me a moment while I share a few things some of you may not know.  I was always a rifle and pistol guy.  Never had any use for shotguns (because I haven't hunted since I was kid).  I did finally buy a Mossberg 410 security shotgun for my wife, for Christmas yet, but that went over like a leadshot balloon (fortunately I also bought her a necklace -- I am trainable).

The 410 was okay.  The sales lit compared it to a .38 pistol and showed how much more powerful the 410 was.  Plus the intimidating factor of the pump sound and the generally mean look of the little shotgun.

But ... it was NOT a 12-gauge, the king of the mountain.

I never even heard of a coach shotgun until I watched a big burly guy in a Marine Corps BX buy one for his wife.  She needed something simple, safe, and deadly because a bear was hanging around her house on a nearby little mountain, and she had to get to her car in the morning by herself after her husband left earlier for a longer commute.

So I spent a lot of time Googling and talking to gun shop people and gun enthusiasts, and found immense respect for the simple but deadly double barrel 12-gauge coach shotgun (18 and a half inch barrel).

My son-in-law brought one to his farm one day and we shot some clay pigeons with it.  We shot some more with my little 410.  Both were okay, but the coach 12-gauge was much more impressive.

Since then I find the 12-gauge shotgun is maybe the world's most popular gun and probably the most powerful routine home defense gun.  

Like some other shooters, I find the semi automatic and pump actions less safe and more bother, especially fumbling around in the dark in a home defense situation.

I think a double barrel 12 gauge has plenty of firepower for most situations, and it's easy and safe to use and reload quickly.  Like all shotguns, it's also easy to load shells of different power too if you want.

Today I went to a local indoor range and shot my Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme for the first time.  It was delightful and awesome.  Totally natural feeling and handling.  And so powerful that I really hope I never have to point it at any living creature.  

As you probably know, a standard shotgun test is 70% of the shot in one shell hitting within a 30-inch target at 40 yards.  That's hunting criteria rather than the much shorter home defense ranges of about 7 to 15 yards.

To test my shotgun's patterns, I shot and marked a 14x18-inch target for first the right barrel and then a fresh target for the left barrel.  My right barrel has an Improved Cylinder choke maximizing hit pattern at 30 yards; the left barrel has a Modified choke maximizing at 35 yards.  

Those are clay pigeon ranges.  Some people don't realize that contrary to popular delusion, shotguns still have to be aimed: they don't just obliterate everything 10 feet around.  

Still, these chokes are fine for home defense.  I recorded both barrel performances with different loads at 7 and 15 yards, typical home defense ranges.  And every shot was lethal, no doubt about it.  

I started out with light birdshot (No. 8) loads to get an idea how the coach shotgun would do for clay pigeon shooting.  There are 410 pellets in No. 8 birdshot, and needless to say the targets were peppered at those close home defense ranges.  

They were also peppered at the end of the indoor range, about 30 yards.  

The birdshot was particularly delightful because it was Winchester AA Low Noise Low Recoil Shotshell.  Rather pleasant to shoot, actually.

But birdshot has too little penetration for serious home defense.  Gotta go to buckshot loads for that.  

Then I got serious testing the home defense loads.  First what many consider the best home defense shotgun load: No. 1 buckshot.  

Although my coach shotgun accepts 3-inch shells, on the recommendation of many sources I stuck with lower recoil 2 3/4-inch shells in all sizes.  I'm glad I did -- no way I need more juice than 2 3/4.

Incidentally, the Stoeger is a hammerless with two triggers and a safety (push forward for off) right behind the lever that opens the barrels -- excellent convenience, safety, versatility, and intuitive handling.  

Each Remington No. 1 Buckshot has 16 pellets.  I shot fairly fast, aiming quickly with the stock tucked tightly against my shoulder.  At 7 yards, all 16 pellets from each barrel hit the target, most in the center, within a 7-inch diameter.

At 15 yards, all 16 pellets again hit, this time within a 9-inch diameter.  The right barrel was mostly in the center and down; the left barrel was more to the upper left.  Do you think I was flinching on the second shot?  Could be.

With Federal Premium 00 Buckshot, the 12 pellets nearly obliterated the bullseye at 7 yards from the right barrel, and all 12 were almost as tight but slightly left with the left barrel.  All pellets were within a 4-inch diameter.  

At 15 yards, all 12 pellets from the 00 Buckshot again were dead center with the right barrel, but up and to the left with the left barrel.  Normally jerking the trigger pulls shot down and left, so not sure what's going on with up and left unless I'm really flinching and almost trying to get away  from the second shot.  All pellets were within an 8-inch diameter.  

Contrary to what I read about at least one source (the International Wound Ballistics Association) advocating the No. 1 buckshot as the premier home defense load, I'm more impressed with the slightly larger and more concentrated 00 Buckshot load.  Surprisingly, in the article, the No. 1 Buckshot supposedly was more lethal than both 00 and 000 Buckshot.  

Granted, four more pellets in the No. 1's slightly wider radius probably is better, and supposedly all three top loads can penetrate 12 inches of the test goop that simulates flesh and bone, so lethality is not a question with any of No. 1, 00, or 000.  

Basically, it comes down to this:  At 7 yards, most or all pellets hit within a seven-inch diameter with No. 1 Buckshot and within a four-inch diameter with 00 Buckshot; at 15 yards, most or all pellets hit within a nine-inch diameter with No. 1 Buckshot and within an eight-inch diameter with 00 Buckshot.  

Therefore, every reasonably aimed and fired No. 1 or 00 Buckshot presumably would have stopped most any intruder up to 15 yards away (and undoubtedly farther) with the equivalent of quite a few submachine bullets hitting within a diameter of four to nine inches.  

So, I hope this isn't more than you wanted to know about penguins.  The more I read about shotguns, especially 12 gauge, the more fascinated I became, to the point I wondered why I ever considered anything else as the ultimate home defense gun.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2006, 10:12:45 PM by Halo »
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2006, 10:04:23 PM »
Most people whine and whine about the recoil of a shotgun.  Any of my 3 shotgun's (2 pumps, one over and under) recoil doesn't even compare to most of my major rifles.
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Offline nirvana

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« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2006, 11:00:01 PM »
They have pads to reduce recoil but i'm not sure if they work or not.  I heard a "light load" shotgun is good for home protection, but again, i've no experience.
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Offline Bingo73

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« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2006, 08:20:37 AM »
I'm too dang lazy to read this whole thread..but I think a shotgun is the best home defense weapon period. Load it up and just point it in the general direction of the bad guy. :-)

Plus there is the psychological aspect of the sound of a pump shot gun being racked that has a tendency to get people's attention.:eek:

Online Meatwad

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« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2006, 08:39:33 AM »
I live in a small cracker town and about everyone here has at least 1 gun.  I have one gun just 10 feet from where I am right now
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2006, 08:41:42 AM »
MY norinco 97 pump gun is very reliable and has the most spread I have ever seen.   A 30" circle for 00 buck at 25 feet is normal for it.  You couldn't hit skeet with it unless you shot em 15' out.   The patterns are pretty uniform tho.   It is more point and shoot than any shotgun I have ever shot and... the Model 97 is a great idea for a pump.

It is short and handy with a sturdy butt plate and stock and it has an exposed hammer so you know if it is ready to go or not.   It  is one of the most reliable actions ever.   Easy to load single rounds and does not suffer from "short stroking" like a lot of pumps.  

It even has a bayonet if all else fails.  

Still.... It is not what I want for home defense.  It sits in my safe.

My Kimber 45 with 9 rounds of hydroshoks sits on the nightstand.   That or my cut down ruger Redhawk in 4" and 44 mag loaded with hydroshoks or my Smith J frame scandium 12 oz gun with 5 rounds of 125 grain federal hollow points.

lazs

Offline shooter1cac

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« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2006, 02:59:41 PM »
All this talk about shotguns made me go out and buy one today.:p
I bought a Spartan (by Remington) short coach gun. (They make a longer version..but I wanted the shorty). I paid $300.00 cash and unpacked it out of the box...came with 2 full chokes and they also threw in 4 boxes of shells.. 2 boxes of Super X 000 buck and 2 boxes small game load.

Now I gotta go kill some paper bad guys after work tomorrow with it. :D