Author Topic: WEP (War Emergency Power) Querys  (Read 1033 times)

Offline mussie

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WEP (War Emergency Power) Querys
« on: July 09, 2005, 10:42:56 AM »
Ok this is gonna make me look like a total noob but

1- (YES/NO)
Wep is basically pushing an engine beyond its normal operating RPM.

2- (Correct? Yes No)
With water injection there would have been a limited amount of water to inject so I assume that WEP should be limited by this and it’s not just a case of waiting for the engine to cool down

3- Was WEP implemented in different ways or did all aircraft use water injection.

4- If there were other ways to produce WEP can you give some examples.

Just point me to a link if ya like

Thanks

Offline jetb123

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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2005, 10:50:18 AM »
easy stick a can of nitrgen in the plane!! IM sure you already seen it. La7 was built with 20 cans on nitrgen in it so it can give it that UPMh!

Offline 68DevilM

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Re: WEP (War Emergency Power) Querys
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2005, 11:29:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mussie
Ok this is gonna make me look like a total noob but

1- (YES/)
Wep is basically pushing an engine beyond its normal operating RPM.
(commonly know as millitary power)
2- (Correct? Yes)
With water injection there would have been a limited amount of water to inject so I assume that WEP should be limited by this and it’s not just a case of waiting for the engine to cool down
(the water i would think would have been recycled like that in the radiator in your car)

3- Was WEP implemented in different ways or did all aircraft use water injection.
(no clue)

4- If there were other ways to produce WEP can you give some examples.

Just point me to a link if ya like

Thanks

Offline mussie

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WEP (War Emergency Power) Querys
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2005, 11:55:01 AM »
Quote
easy stick a can of nitrgen in the plane!! IM sure you already seen it. La7 was built with 20 cans on nitrgen in it so it can give it that UPMh!


Jet, Are you serious, did they use Nox in the LA-7?


Quote
the water i would think would have been recycled like that in the radiator in your car


68, I thought it was injected directly into the cylinder chamber?
If thats correct then it could not be recycled

Offline Golfer

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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2005, 12:20:28 PM »
68 the water isn't recycled.  WEP water injection is not used to cool anything down (the purpose of the radiator) but rather injecting water in with the fuel/air mixture retards detonation giving you more oomph per puff of the cylinder.

There are liquid cooled engines, air cooled engines and both can use water injection which is nothing magical or super powered like an Afterburner, just a few more horsepower to help give you that last little edge to either win a fight or get away from it.

Offline mussie

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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2005, 12:28:45 PM »
But they would have a limit to how long they could use WEP  till they landed and refilled the water tank right ?

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2005, 12:40:03 PM »
Wet WEP means there is a tank that contains water or water/methanol mix. This is injected into the inlet of the engine to cool the combustion chambers and prevent detonation at high boost levels. When it is gone, it is gone until the tank is refilled.

Dry WEP is simply a higher boost rating that can be used until the engine gets too hot.

Nitrous oxide was used by the Germans to increase power at higher altitudes where less dense air lowers power. Nitrous ixide seperates into nitrogen and oxygen. The cooling effect reduces intake temperatures and makes the air denser. The oxygen is there to allow more fuel to be burned. When the bottle is empty it is empty until it is replaced or refilled.

Only dry WEP is renewable in flight. When the engine cools enough, it can be run at the higher boost settings again for a while.
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Offline mussie

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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2005, 12:53:51 PM »
ok so some of planes in AH should have limited WEP? and from jets comments I take it that the LA is one of them.

Thanks all

Offline 68DevilM

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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2005, 03:07:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
.

There are liquid cooled engines, air cooled engines and both can use water injection


dont forget cooling with fuel too

Offline TheThang

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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2005, 03:29:18 PM »
Americans Used water injection Germans used nitrox

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2005, 03:34:09 PM »
The Mosquito NF.Mk XIX used N2O as well.

The Ki-84's engine could use methanol/water, thought I don't know if it was used in service or not.
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Offline Golfer

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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2005, 05:45:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68DevilM
dont forget cooling with fuel too


Unless you're talking about using a richer mixture I have no idea what you're talking about.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2005, 06:56:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
68 the water isn't recycled.  WEP water injection is not used to cool anything down (the purpose of the radiator) but rather injecting water in with the fuel/air mixture retards detonation giving you more oomph per puff of the cylinder.

There are liquid cooled engines, air cooled engines and both can use water injection which is nothing magical or super powered like an Afterburner, just a few more horsepower to help give you that last little edge to either win a fight or get away from it.


Water injection (ADI / MW-50 etc..) is injected into the eye of the supercharger cooling the charge allowing higher boost by preventing  detonation. The cooler the charge the more pressure you can have in the cylinder before the fuel detonates.

It certainly does provide some cooling. In fact water injection isn't needed above FTH to prevent detonation. Above  FTH the supercharger is already losing power. However, injecting water will still provide cooling.

Quote
(the water i would think would have been recycled like that in the radiator in your car)


It is not recycled in any way.

Quote
Americans Used water injection Germans used nitrox


ADI and MW-50 work the same way. MW-50 = water / methanol 50% each. The methanol prevents the water from freezing and aids in evaporation (which is how it cools the charge).

On the FW 190A and F series C3 injection was used to cool the charge. C3 fuel (right from the fuel line) is injected into the eye of the supercharger cooling the charge.

N20 was rarely used in standard service by the LW.

Quote
The Ki-84's engine could use methanol/water, thought I don't know if it was used in service or not.


The Japanese used Water/Methanol just like the Germans in several aircraft types (Ki-84, Ki-100 etc..)

Quote
But they would have a limit to how long they could use WEP till they landed and refilled the water tank right ?


All planes in AH should have a limit set for 'WEP'. In some cases exceeding the limit could cause engine damage but in most instances the limits were arrived at to pro-long engine life. The idea is to keep as many aircraft in service as possible and not to over burden your maintenance crews. In some instances where exceeding 'WEP' limits could result in damage.

In the case of water / adi / MW-50 these tanks need to be filled just like your fuel tank. When the water is gone running at max boost could case serious engine problems.

In AH all aircraft that have 'WEP' so that after a given amount of time your engine will heat up and automatically cut-off 'WEP'. After a given cool down period you have 'WEP' again. You could do this for ever. For most planes the time to 'WEP" cut-off varies, so does the cool down period.

Quote
Wep is basically pushing an engine beyond its normal operating RPM.


In AH the term 'WEP' is just a generic term assigned  to max (emergency) power.

First you need to understand that there are various power settings for aircraft. These settings are arrived at in order to ensure a good service life, to increase range by conservation of fuel etc..

For example you would see something like this:

Take-off / emergency power

Max continuous - (max continuous power setting the aircraft can run at)

Climb / combat - (for German AC this was normally a 30 min limit.)

Special Emergency - 1, 3, 5, 10 min ect limit.

Exceeding those limits won't necessarily mean your engine would blow up or fail (but in some planes it could). What exceeding those limits will do is cut short expected service life of that engine and increase time between overhauls.

As the Cap'n points out with some aircraft 'emergency' power just means increasing rpm and boost and on others it would mean water injection etc...

Offline Wind

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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2005, 08:29:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Nitrous oxide was used by the Germans to increase power at higher altitudes where less dense air lowers power.  


Ahh!  So THAT's why I'm laughing so hard when I shoot one of those numbnuts down at high alt!   ;)

W~

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2005, 08:48:25 PM »
Quote
Ahh! So THAT's why I'm laughing so hard when I shoot one of those numbnuts down at high alt!


If you are referring to flying LW aircraft then no LW plane in AH has N20 (GM-1). IIRC not even the Ta-152 (as it should).

GM-1 wasn't standard for the LW AH has in game (exception 152).