The Head-On

[Schutt]

When after the merge the other plane keeps coming round in a way forcing head on passes then i think its fair to take a shot.

Feeling save in front of the other guns is just insane, in a good fight you have to deny the other guy the shooting solutions. If there is a good shooting possibility head on ill take it.

I think it is narrow minded to say i am in front of your guns but because we face each other you should not shoot. Its bad fighting style to give the other guy the possibility.
Most times i try to avoid head on in the merge to get a better position, when the other guy wants to try head on shot he may but the chances are not to good.

And when i face multiple enemys or see that i cant out fight him i try to get any shot i can... dont care which way the other plane flys or weather it costs all ammo since the ammo dont help me when im shot down.

[TexMurphy]

The way I see it.

99% of all HOs can be very easily avoided, IF you plan ahead in your merge. After a while it comes to the stage where you activly have to accpet the HO inorder to make it a HO situation.

If you make it a habit of never going for a ho but always avoiding it in your merge then you will not die to it.

What upsets me about HOs though is.

1. When I get hit by one I get pissed at my self for screwing up and failing to avoid something that I so easily can do.

2. I get upset when I see pilots using it as their primary shot because that means they are not evolving as pilots. The ones who use it as their main weapon dont know how to get in position for any other shot. The reason I dont take it because the 50-50 odds are too bad but these pilots have settled with thinking 50-50 is good odds. That means they have resigned to the learning curve.

The thing is the HO is only 50-50 if the enemy accepts it. If he doesnt its suddenly a 80-20 advantage to the enemy.

The commitment to the HO means that you will give up vertical separation and you will be late for your opening move. To make things even worse most pilots that use HO as primary weapon also use flat turn reverses.

If a pilot commits for a HO and flat turns as opener and the enemy doesnt accept, goes low for vertical separation and avoiding the HO plus uses a immel reverse then the odds are 95-5 for the later pilot.

Seeing pilots doing this and not working on getting better is sad to me. Because that means that a) they wount get better and the game wount be more challanging for me and b) the chance of them getting frustrated and quitting is high.

Tex

[daMIG]

most eloquently put Tex.

[thrila]

Heheh vudak.  I'm not into mutual assured destruction, if someone looks like they're gonna head right for me on the merge i''ll dodge it.  If they make a half hearted attempt for seperation i'll take the shot.  Why? because it ends the fight before it develops.  If someone starts to manouver for separation at 1.5k out i wont bother as i know i wont land any hits.
 
I think you need to take into consideration the mossie is my main ride, all i need is the briefest of opportunities and it's all over.  If someone doesn't respect  the mossies firepower they'll get punished.

[SkyWolf]

Originally posted by stantond
While I don't monitor ch 200,

Regards,

Malta

I hear ya. But not on 200. I've never tuned it and I can only HOPE I make someone whine on there. I try not to HO... but sometimes you just get tired.

Woof

[scott123]

It takes two to HO.I shot a vet down in a HO recently in a Typhoon,he turned into me,when he goes down he gets on 200 & blasts me.lol...I have no intention of dogfighting in the truck that is the typhoon,if I can use B&z or E,I prefer the 6 shot.What this person did not like was having his score hurt,and his ego bruised.

If you can avoid the HO do.but if it's your only option take it,because if you don't they will.

This game is about killing red icons.So kill them,if you want to show mercy or fight by some unwritten moral code do.but no one has a right to  expect that treatment,and few will show it you.

I notice a lot of ppl complain about trees,like the tree flew into them.LOL

I think the trees should defend themselves on this one,they get a lot of *%*$ on 200.

[DamnedRen]

I have only a few things to mention regarding HO's.

1) The game allows it so have fun!

2) In RL would YOU take a 50/50 shot on a guy when YOU have a pretty fair chance of dying? Tell that to your mom or wife and kids.

3) Alternatively, you could learn something about air combat tactics and maneuvors. Naw............

3) The game allows it so have fun!

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by scott123
It takes two to HO.

I really don't agree with this. There's been many times when I'm in a 2+vs1. Turning and rolling, trying to track everybody. Pull up to the top of the loop only to see another enemy at 600 out screaming down from 50K and blasting you. Sure I might get a quick burst but it was never my intention to go nose to nose with him. It was his sheer laziness to work for position and hope for the best even though he's spent the time gainin that alt. That's about the only time I get bothered by a HO. Also when it's 2+vs you and everyone of them HOs every chance they get. If I happen to be one of the many and the under dog Hos, that's no biggy to me, he's at a huge sisadvantage. In the end none of the above senarios make me scream and throw my keyboard. It just gets me thinking sometimes.

[Schatzi]

In recent times, ive rarely considered taking or accepting any HO shots, mainly cause im flying Hurr Mk1.

Generally, i prefer to avoid HO, cause of the 50/50 and in favor of trying for a six position. (When im on someones tail i can go for multiple shots, not only one - needed cause i have really bad aim ) Especially in 1vs1 fights i enjoy the process of working for position, getting angles and basically win or loose cause of skill, not whos got the bigger canon.

But if im outnumbered or in a big furball: anything goes. Ill take any shot i can get.

The only planes i regularly try to HO (if possible) are bombers.


As for channel 200. Im tuned! Best soap ever.
And besides, sometimes its nice to communicate with 'The Enemy'.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by scott123
It takes two to HO.

Nah, it takes two to joust.  BIG difference.

Thrila - I've fought yer Spitty a few times, you definately know what you're doing & I won't hold any Mossie face-shots against ya as I'm sure that's not the only thing you ever set up for.

[REP0MAN]

Ok Gang, here is where we deviate slightly from the original post.

I like to fly the La7. I know alot of you guys hate the La7. Why? Beats me. Anyway, If I am screaming accross the deck, which is what La sticks like to do, and all the sudden, poof, there is a red icon closing fast. It's going to be a head on merge. What do you do to manuver away from the head on while trying to turn the tables against the HO and gain position to fire. Like in my first post, I usually invert and dive if I have altitude. Diving in an La7 has earned me the tree killing title. I've done a number of things to avoid the 50/50 odds and usually still get pinged a few times causing me to run for home as fast and low as possible.

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by REP0MAN
Ok Gang, here is where we deviate slightly from the original post.

I like to fly the La7. I know alot of you guys hate the La7. Why? Beats me. Anyway, If I am screaming accross the deck, which is what La sticks like to do, and all the sudden, poof, there is a red icon closing fast. It's going to be a head on merge. What do you do to manuver away from the head on while trying to turn the tables against the HO and gain position to fire. Like in my first post, I usually invert and dive if I have altitude. Diving in an La7 has earned me the tree killing title. I've done a number of things to avoid the 50/50 odds and usually still get pinged a few times causing me to run for home as fast and low as possible.

Suggestion go to the DA and learn to duel. Your explaination tells me you may not be sure just how to go about merging with someone in a fight. Alternately, come on over to the TA and get with any trainer. They all know how to do and can teach it.

Hope this helps.

[TexMurphy]

Originally posted by REP0MAN
Ok Gang, here is where we deviate slightly from the original post.

I like to fly the La7. I know alot of you guys hate the La7. Why? Beats me. Anyway, If I am screaming accross the deck, which is what La sticks like to do, and all the sudden, poof, there is a red icon closing fast. It's going to be a head on merge. What do you do to manuver away from the head on while trying to turn the tables against the HO and gain position to fire. Like in my first post, I usually invert and dive if I have altitude. Diving in an La7 has earned me the tree killing title. I've done a number of things to avoid the 50/50 odds and usually still get pinged a few times causing me to run for home as fast and low as possible.

The best position you can have in a dogfight is high position on the enemies six. He cant touch you and you can waste him when ever you feel like it. This is what you wana achive.

lets look at a few scenarios.

Q: If you invert and go into a split S what manouvers give high positions on your six?

A: Any manouver that doesnt make you loose altitude and that reverses you in roughly the same time as the split S.

Q: When you do a split S what manouvers does your enemy need to make inorder for you to gain high six on him?

A: Ummm... cant think of any.

Q: If you after merge do a flat turn what manouvers does he need to make for you to gain high six on him?

A: Any low manouver like a split S, assuming you have a plane that turns relativly fast.

Q: If you do a flat turn what manouvers does he need to do inorder for him to gain high six on you?

A: Any high manouver, high yoyo or perferably Immelman.

Q: If you do a immelman what manouvers do you gain high six on?

A: Any lower manouvers. especially the flat turn (most common manouver in MA).  The split S you end up above but quite far away from.

Q:If you do a immelman what manouver does he need to do to get high six on you?

A: He can only do a immelman to equalize the situatin. He cant gain high six on you in a single manouver.

Further its very good to know that a Immelman reverses you (180 degrees) faster then the flat turn.

The Immelman stores energy. You gain alt and hence convert speed into altitude.

The flat turn burns energy as it doesnt generate speed or altitude. Biggest E burner you can do.

The Split S does convert altitude into speed but it does still burn E since it pulls alot of G.

Q: So what opening move is the most likely to generate a gunsolution?

A: Immelman.

Q: How do you merge to make a immelman and avoid a HO?

A: You go UNDER your enemy. Get under his nose and he has to pull negative G to get his guns on you. By going under him you also gain vertical spearation and hence a better position in a "Immel fight" if he should follow you up high.

Tex

[Iceman24]

If I'm merging with another AC and he pulls up 1st to go verticle right in front of me, I'm not supposed to shoot at him hahaha common now. Dont get me wrong I dont set out to headon, anyone that has fought me knows that if I get into a headon situation with an enemy I actually apologize to the guy for me putting myself in that position on ch 200. For the most part HO's are avoidable "MOST" of the time, but if some newby thinks there gonna come in and fly straight at me and get a kill there wrong... The 1st thing I try and do at the merge is get vert. or horiz. seperation... mostly verticle seperation because I fly the 38J allot. So before the merge I usually dive a little and gain allot of speed, gain vert. speperation. Allot of times a newer player will see that, not know what to do, panc, and mirror my move which puts us into a HO position. At about 1.5-2k out, I'll roll one way and fake a break, the enemy will do the same and i'll then lvl out a bit dive or climb just a bit to put a little angle on the shot and blammo the guys dead.. Same thing works well if you put your nose a little low and then go high, the bogey will see you dive, mirror you, and when you pull back up quick, you now have a great cockpit shot and angles to work with incase you miss, because he is now nose low and your nose high at the merge. The shot is not a straight 90 degree HO move but an 80 degree snap "ANTI-HO" maneuver. Remember most HO's are created by newer players that don't know any better, all you gotta do is through em off a lil and there dead

[Zaphod]

Originally posted by Murdr
I disagree  Zaphod.  There is a faction interested in "air combat".  If your sole purpose for logging on was to find a few good turn fights, would you not be annoyed at the waste of your time of seaching for a fight to only find players who think they are armored kights at a jousting tournement.

Since the HO is one of the easiest tactics to counter and exploit, I wont bother doing too much complaining.

I'm not sure what you disagree with....  

I consider myself part of the "faction interested in air combat".  This is why I'm here, I personally don't subscribe to the "win the war" mentality as I don't find it fun...although there is nothing wrong with others finding it fun.  (Having said that it is fun to jump in a bomber every now and then, but just because its fun to occasionally plan a flight, drop eggs and attempt an RTB.)  

I think that there are several folks who are also part of that group who just take a different tact in how they fight.  It could be that they are inexperienced, uneducated or maybe just don't care.  The point is that several of the air combat faction folks use the "HO & Run" approach to air combat.  Is it effective...not usually...so I don't use it.  It can be irritating but its nothing more than another challenge to be dealt with.  It still comes down to somebody being good enough to make a HO pass on the merge and land enough hits to damage your plane while you are evading and setting them up for position.  If they can do it...they win.  It's not my choice because its largely ineffective for me and seems easy to avoid but on occasion they can get it done.  If they do get it done it's usually because I didn't do a good enough job of evading.  

I really think that the vast majority of complaints about HO results from the "he just got a lucky shot because he couldn't have done it any other way" mentality.  Who knows if it was skill, luck or a combination of both.  It really doesn't matter because the same applies if he misses.  Was it your skill that made him miss, his lack of skill or back luck for him/good luck for you.  Nobody knows, hence my comment on EGO.  I could be wrong...but I'm certain that the vast majority of complaints on the subject you have heard from ME regarding any fight stem from a bruised ego.

I'm more likely to get irritated by countrymates pulling a HO on an enemy I am 200-400 yards behind than the enemies help rolling in to HO me during the same fight.

Is it irritating to have several planes in a row you try to fight pull the "HO & Run" move.  Yes.  But there isn't much I can do about it so I try not to let it bother me to the point of distraction.

On a side note.....
HO shots during a fight are another matter entirely.  Flying in front of someone's guns in a twisty turney scrap will result in shots fired.  Everybody in here does that....EVERYBODY. I can't count the number of times I have passed up a HO shot during a close in fight only to be blasted by the "veteran" I was fighting..........with a HO shot.  That's the kind of training that sticks with you.

Zaphod