The Head-On

[pellik]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
pellik

Your comments are totally right. But my Q&As where ment to keep it as simple as possible to show how easy it is to increase your odds from 50-50 (HO) to 70-30 (Opening move Immelman).

Seriously to beat 60-70% of the MA in a 1v1ish siutation just avoiding the HO and doing a Immelman is enough.

To go better then that you need to gain alot more understanding of E, how to combine manouvers, angles and gunnery.

Tex.

I think your Q&A format was misleading. You implied that certain moves were answers to other moves. I just wanted to point out that it's not static so that people reading the help and training forum don't mislearn something and hinder their development.

[TexMurphy]

Originally posted by pellik
I think your Q&A format was misleading. You implied that certain moves were answers to other moves. I just wanted to point out that it's not static so that people reading the help and training forum don't mislearn something and hinder their development.

Yeah your right I should have made that clear from the start...

Tex

[BTW]

If a pitchback is a cross between a flat turn and and immelman, how is that different than a yoyo? I think of a yoyo as a 45 degree immelman or 45 degree split s depending high or low yoyo.

[Shaky]

A pitchback is used to reverse direction and gain some alt, preserving E as much as possible. Its most useful with the enema breaks flat after the merge, or breaks low, since you can get guns on quicker than if you jst pulled up and through in an immelman.

A Yo-Yo is used to prevent an overshoot on a rear quarter pass when the target breaks, you pull up then turn into the target, part of your radius if turn is the vertical component, keeping the flat radius as small as possible. The Yo yo also puts you back at an alt advantage, and cuts your airspeed letting you do a more controlled pass from above and behind him.

Damn, I sign on for a day to look for old names, and its like the AWTA again.

[Iceman24]

I saw this on someones site not sure whos it was but it did a good job of describing a yo yo high and low. It basically said that if you were to take a round dinner plate and cut it in half then the top half would be what a high yo yo looks like. When you make your turn you pull back on the stick and basically just cut the corner by going nose up for a lil bit and then back down to swap some of your alt for speed. The reverse of that is a low yo yo or the bottom half of a dinner plate. you start your turn but instead of pulling back to cut the corner you actually go nose low to cut it. And since you are now lower alt and faster since you went nose low, you would want to pull back at the end of the move to trade some of your speed for the alt you just lost. Your basically just using E management to turn your plane around, instead of losing E like in a flat turn, you are conserving it. Instead of using flat turns always use yo yo's if you want to keep your E up, I hardly ever use a flat turn at all, always yo yo's. Now a pitchback is different, instead of just pulling straight back to pull an immelman you would roll  30-45 degrees  to one side then pull straight  back. Your basically just doing a cross between an immel and a flat turn. If I wasn't at work I would take a video and post it for ya. Will try tonight if I get a chance. Its a really good move that I am trying to play with and get better at... For all you Aces out there, What is a good scenario to use the pitchback in. I have been playing with it in the barrel roll when I get all the way to the top of the roll instead of goin around again I have been using the pitchback, seems to work very well especially in my P38J. What are some other good scenarios to use it in ?

[DamnedRen]

A YoYo is used to either slow your plane or get it faster relative to your adversary's plane. Nothing more.

Most folks have a tendency to overdo a YoYo either not enough up/down or too much. More often than not the High YoYo is so high that the adversary has time to perform a reversal maneuver and can turn the tables. Your objective is to get your plane slowed  or accellerate to a point that you have a narrow overtake margin and can maintain saddled up on his 6.

As an excercise go in hot on a plane and as you blow through and see him moving to the left or right out of your field of view roll back in immediately. Don't continue up just roll right back in. That is all you need. If you can get behind some fellow in the TA and he starts turning just pull up enough that he begins moving out of your field of view and turn back in. DO it over and over until you begin to see it doesn't take much nose up to slow you to a point that you slow your closure rate for an easy saddle up. If you do this you will see that as your planes begin to match speeds a High YoYo will have him beginning to pull away.

If, on the other hand, your speed is very fast then go up, roll inverted, look down (forward up view) at him inverted and pull back in. Again beware of a possible overshoot in the making which may require another High YoYo.

A Low YoYo is used when you are too slow but he is on a turn that you can fly an intercept course on. TO do it right this is actually very hard for a noob to do because it means you must roll your belly at the guy for a few seconds. You are doing this for a couple of reasons. You roll away and go inverted and pull, this puts your nose down which gets you fast. In fact, much faster then he is in his turn. You now look at him and place your lift vector (roll wings) on the point in his turn that you plan to intercept him and pull to that point. You will see him on a converging course out to your right/left and right/left fwd (sometimes up) views (depending on which way he turned). Now you just saddle up for a shot. If you miss remember you are moving at a much faster speed than he is and you must go into a High YoYo to regain a pursuit course with him.

Hope this helps to clarify YoYo's.

[MajWoody]

How do you deal with someone who is a very good shot in an ho merge? I try to avoid & I give him a deflection shot which he kills me. I try to blow on by & he ho's me. I try a joust & I'll die as often, or more often then he. I must be using the wrong ho evading moves. I think this just makes some people ho or die.
 Anyway it doesn't take 2 to ho

[SuperDud]

I normally let the guy come in at an angle to me. At about an 11 or 1 oclock position. When he gets to 800-400 I break hard into him and begin my manuever. I've yet to be hit doing so, or at least no more than a BB or 2. And I smile as I come around on his 6:aok

[Silat]

Originally posted by daMIG
heard this in response to Corporate Politics:

"Fair is a place when pigs get ribbons."

Initial merge, you skilled sticks have taught, is to set up the next move, not end the fight in a joust. I guess in a 13 v 2 furball it is bar-room brawl at best and street rules apply. Take the best shot when ya can.

I have fun flying. I hope that I am considered to be fun to fly with, and against. This is quite a community....

Cyas up, (I guess I dont use HO only cause I lose. lol)

daMIG (miggy)  

You are a big troublemaker:)

[Simaril]

I stopped getting hit by HO's when I started barrel rolling on closure -- gets me through the merge clean but without the advantage. When you guys talk about taking advantage of the Ho'ers continued tracking efforts for the shot, do you generally mean by maneuvers similar to the Immel? If that's so, does the break from "get under him" to "pull up to start the Immel" come right near the pass, shortly before it, or kinda long before it (taking into account the combined speed of merge)?

Second, how is a pitchback different than a Chandelle? Both have lateral separation (the bank component), both have aggressive pitch, and both have reversal...right?

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by Simaril
Second, how is a pitchback different than a Chandelle? Both have lateral separation (the bank component), both have aggressive pitch, and both have reversal...right?

A chandelle is a climbing turn, 180 degrees.
A pitch back is an out of plane reversal without the chandelle.

Hope this helps.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by DamnedRen
A chandelle is a climbing turn, 180 degrees.
A pitch back is an out of plane reversal without the chandelle.

Hope this helps.

Sorry, i dont get it.

AN out of plane reversal without a climbing turn?

[pellik]

Originally posted by MajWoody
How do you deal with someone who is a very good shot in an ho merge? I try to avoid & I give him a deflection shot which he kills me. I try to blow on by & he ho's me. I try a joust & I'll die as often, or more often then he. I must be using the wrong ho evading moves. I think this just makes some people ho or die.
 Anyway it doesn't take 2 to ho

You're really not trying to let him get a deflection shot. The idea is to let him almost have a shot, but with a turn into him such that there is no way for him to pull to get the hit. If he's very lucky he may pull tremendous lead early and spray a bit, but he will be shooting at something below his nose if you know how to avoid properly. My guess is if you're getting hit you're not getting enough seperation before the merge.

[pellik]

Originally posted by Simaril
Sorry, i dont get it.

AN out of plane reversal without a climbing turn?

It's all in the roll.

[daMIG]

So I get OUT of plane, reverse it, hop in and hope for the best?

Sorry, out-of-plane thows me.

SILAT  I am NOT a troublemaker (in my own mind) and neither is DOOM.

"miggy sux in la7
in the 109g too,
Ponys and Spits...
and Niki WOO HOO.
I show up on kill boards,
of dweebs, newbies and Aces..
But when it comes to Greatness
I sux best in the 38's"


(i crack my self up. Perk the invisible Trees)