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Author Topic: The Head-On  (Read 2432 times)

Offline REP0MAN

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The Head-On
« on: July 11, 2005, 04:09:50 PM »
Why is a Head on attack critizied so badly on 200 text channel? Why do some veterans of this game cry so loudly when someone comes at them, guns blazing, right on their 12 o'clock. Is there an oath against the Head on? Is it bad form to go head on with an enemy aircraft?

Just me asking. Dont take it personally. :) I am relatively new and curious. I dont mind the Head on attatck as an opening move. If I dont like it I invert and dive pushing bad guy into a neg G/ nose down situation for the shot or making him invert and dive to chase me while I trade E for Alt and then level and try to lure him in usually ending with the sudden demise of myself and some innocent foliage.

 :)
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Apparently, one in five people in the world are Chinese. And there are five people in my family, so it must be one of them. It's either my mum or my dad. Or my older brother, Colin. Or my younger brother, Ho-Chan-Chu. But I think it's Colin. - Tim Vine.

Offline Zaphod

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Re: The Head-On
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2005, 04:32:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by REP0MAN
Why is a Head on attack critizied so badly on 200 text channel? Why do some veterans of this game cry so loudly when someone comes at them, guns blazing, right on their 12 o'clock. Is there an oath against the Head on? Is it bad form to go head on with an enemy aircraft?

Just me asking. Dont take it personally. :) I am relatively new and curious. I dont mind the Head on attatck as an opening move. If I dont like it I invert and dive pushing bad guy into a neg G/ nose down situation for the shot or making him invert and dive to chase me while I trade E for Alt and then level and try to lure him in usually ending with the sudden demise of myself and some innocent foliage.

 :)


One word......"EGO"

I have felt a number of times that I "should have" beat whoever administered a HO as an opening move.  Most usually I would have.....if......the guy hadn't made the shot.  It's not a great move to make to develope a good position on another plane, and if they continually go for the HO shot they will only get two or three tries if they are pushing hard.  After that the plane that worked for position vs the HO will be on their six.  But that's only if I can make them miss.  If they do hit and do enough damage then they win.  That can be a bitter pill to swallow for some (me included at times) and that leads to the comments/excuses et al.

Remember...for most folks...if you didn't think you could beat the other guy then you probably wouldn't be playing the game.

Zaphod
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Offline Murdr

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The Head-On
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2005, 04:54:29 PM »
I disagree  Zaphod.  There is a faction interested in "air combat".  If your sole purpose for logging on was to find a few good turn fights, would you not be annoyed at the waste of your time of seaching for a fight to only find players who think they are armored kights at a jousting tournement.

Since the HO is one of the easiest tactics to counter and exploit, I wont bother doing too much complaining.
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Offline OOZ662

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The Head-On
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2005, 04:56:22 PM »
MOST HOs can be avoided. I do get angry every once in a while when I get HOed, but I admit that it's because of my ego. I spent a long time in the CT and have come to expect a fair merge. If they want to HO me after we merge and extend/turn, fine by me. The merge HO is just plain honorless.
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A Rook who first flew 09/26/03 at the age of 13, has been a GL in 10+ Scenarios, and was two-time Points and First Annual 68KO Cup winner of the AH Extreme Air Racing League.

Offline thrila

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The Head-On
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2005, 05:37:22 PM »
There is also a fair sized proportion of players that deem anything which isn't a rear quarter shot a HO.
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Offline Messiah

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The Head-On
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2005, 05:53:10 PM »
I always avoid HO's if possible.  Always put the enemy at an off angle from your vector and make him think he has a shot.  Deny him of that shot opportunity and then reverse on him.  Some HO's are unavoidable(ex. at the bottom of a rope).          

One should spend less time complaining and more time analyzing why you got Ho'd and what to do to make it that next time you will exploit it.
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Offline TheThang

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The Head-On
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2005, 05:53:24 PM »
only thing  I personally consider a HO is the point where to planes collide because there shooting at eacother. anything over 20 degrees is not a head on IMO
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Offline SKJohn

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The Head-On
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2005, 06:49:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
...I spent a long time in the CT and have come to expect a fair merge.  



Fair? In the MA?
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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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The Head-On
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2005, 06:53:16 PM »
The best definition I have ever heard is this:

"If both planes have a firing solution on each other, its an HO.  If only one can claim that, its an angles shot."

There are several reasons (IMO) why HO has such a bad rep.  Partly its a carry over from attitudes developed in Air Warrior where guys who attempted headon shots were considered the lowest form of dweeb (because HO shots just didnt work in AW, it was considered silly to waste your ammo on a shot that would have a fraction of a percent chance of landing).  Another is that the HO is the easiest (and thus the dweebiest) form of ACM.  You dont have to learn how to fight, just how to pull the trigger.  Then you get ego involved because some guy who takes down anyone who tries to fight him regularly, and goes down to some newbie who's been in for his 2 week free fly on an HO.  Or someone running home with 10 kills that just cant wait to land them and gloat, and gets HO'd on his final run for the base.  Then again, maybe thats just Karma.  :)

You fly in the MA, you takes yer chances.  Anything goes in there.  In the CT, with fewer people, we can make "unwritten rules".  Not everyone will follow them even there, but most will.  Except VWE.  :)  In the DA more honorable rules apply.  Personally, I try to apply the same DA rules to my flying in the MA as well.  Because thats how I fly.  I didnt pay to joust.  If I get nailed by some no skill lamer that wants to fly easy mode, yippee skippy for him.  He got lucky, it'll make him feel better about himself.  I know the risks of flying in the MA.
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Offline Vudak

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The Head-On
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2005, 07:03:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by thrila
There is also a fair sized proportion of players that deem anything which isn't a rear quarter shot a HO.



As well as a fair sized proportion of players who approach head on, see the other guy go out of his way to avoid it, and then go out of their way to HO him anyway, and call it a high-skill front quarter shot. :aok

--------------------

Repoman, you're more than free to embrace the HO as a tactic if you'd like, but since you are relatively new and curious let me fill you in on what will happen if you go for the HO:

1.  You will find the enemy also goes for the HO, and you have basically a 50/50 chance of killing him, while more than likely suffering damage yourself which may also possibly effectivly end your sortie then and there.

2.  Your opponent does not go for the HO.  Instead he sets up his move while you're busy trying to HO him.  If you don't kill him, you'd better just keep running, as chances are he has a decisive position advantage on you at this point and you will die.  People who have learned this and thus do nothing but "HO & Run" are possibly amongst the most despised players in this game.  

I'm not claiming to have never HO'd a fellow myself, but after awhile you wise up and decide you'd rather not spend all that time getting to the enemy only to have the sortie possibly ended in a one second joust.

I'm just talking one on one fights here...  If you're getting ganged or vulched take every shot you get.

Just laying my thoughts out for you, I hope you don't take it personally either :)  

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Offline REP0MAN

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The Head-On
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2005, 08:27:17 PM »
Quote
Repoman, you're more than free to embrace the HO as a tactic if you'd like, but since you are relatively new and curious let me fill you in on what will happen if you go for the HO:


Actually, I don't use the HO as an offensive tactic on purpose. Alot of times I see a horde comin my way and I try to take out one as they pass. I am not going to be able to go around, climb or dive to get away from a horde so I make like a kamakazie and plow through the group. I see it sorta the sameas plowing into a clump of buffs as every cannon on every buff is pointed and shooting every last round it has right at you.  

1x1 or 2x1 I will most always try to gain an offensive upperhand by utililizing good E and Alt management. If the bad guy stalls and goes nose down as I am climbing up to get him I will take the shot. Its not my fault that he stalled and we ended up nose to nose. As all of you would agree. I'm not really wanting to debate what is and what is not a HO. I was mostly interested why it is so many people on 200 text cry and whine about the HO all the while I get Ho'ed all the time. I thought I may have been breaking one of those unwritten rules.

As far as what happens if I HO? I know that all to well. Actually, it doesnt matter if I HO or just fly around. I either get to plummet to the earth in 1/4 of my La7 or I get yet another tree kill added to my record. :D

Thanks for the answers fellas. I am honored to have Murdr answer one of my posts. I have read alot of his ACM lessons and seen alot of videos of him kickin bum. (Hows that for an Ego kick?:D)
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Apparently, one in five people in the world are Chinese. And there are five people in my family, so it must be one of them. It's either my mum or my dad. Or my older brother, Colin. Or my younger brother, Ho-Chan-Chu. But I think it's Colin. - Tim Vine.

Offline Kweassa

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The Head-On
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2005, 08:32:18 PM »
Quote
There is also a fair sized proportion of players that deem anything which isn't a rear quarter shot a HO.


 Amen brother thrila, amen.
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Offline stantond

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The Head-On
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2005, 10:16:40 PM »
While I don't monitor ch 200, I take offense to the HO based on reading Shaw's "Figher Combat".  On page 24, an effective guns envelope diagram is shown and described which has a min-max range boundary with the HO in the center.  Per Shaw, it is a poor low probablity shot.  

Maybe he is wrong?  Also, I came from AW and the HO was not effective.  I think the persons who administered that game used Shaw's judgement regarding the HO.  

Did the HO happen in real life? Yes.  Was it a 'lucky' shot? Yes!

Personally, in AH2 I have not been aggravated by the HO like in AH1.  I prefer to not take a HO shot unless it is forced (i.e. I can't maneuver) and multiple kills per sorte is my goal.  HO encounters are rarely without damage to both planes (mostly because my gunnery has gotten better).


Regards,

Malta
« Last Edit: July 11, 2005, 10:22:08 PM by stantond »
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Offline BTW

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The Head-On
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2005, 11:11:58 PM »
Well I'm not going to try a ho on a merge with an enemy, but if an enema presents his 12 in a furball and he's close, I'm gonna shoot - sorry - but it could be one less enemy to deal with.
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Offline daMIG

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is HO Fair??
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2005, 02:23:24 AM »
heard this in response to Corporate Politics:

"Fair is a place when pigs get ribbons."

Initial merge, you skilled sticks have taught, is to set up the next move, not end the fight in a joust. I guess in a 13 v 2 furball it is bar-room brawl at best and street rules apply. Take the best shot when ya can.

I have fun flying. I hope that I am considered to be fun to fly with, and against. This is quite a community....

Cyas up, (I guess I dont use HO only cause I lose. lol)

daMIG (miggy)  :D
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