Author Topic: Would it be a reasonable expectation (Read 1510 times)

Gunslinger · « **Reply #30 on:** July 14, 2005, 01:58:34 PM »

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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Should it? Does this mean we let every other terrorist group off the hook because they are not Muslims?

Do we leave Columbia(narco terrorists), Spain(ETA), Britain(IRA), The Phillipines(leftist terrorists), etc. on thier own?

I say no, they are all the same and should be treated the same.

One man's terrorist is NOT another mans freedom fighter. they are all terrorists!

I would agree with you but the fact remains the only terrorists we've faught in the "war on terror" are muslims.

Gunthr · « **Reply #31 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:04:08 PM »

I agree. All terrorists should be treated the same. The largest group of them are currently the Islamists. So I guess we can justify putting our resources where they will do the most good, on the largest threat.

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #32 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:07:09 PM »

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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I would agree with you but the fact remains the only terrorists we've faught in the "war on terror" are muslims.

Because we've been sitting on our hands all these years. We had this "if it's not effecting me it's not worth dealing with" attitude.

We (all civilized nations) must now make it know that these types of actions will absolutly not be tolerated.

cpxxx · « **Reply #33 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:24:10 PM »

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Originally posted by Seeker
That's not quite true; Laz. The IRA is most definately identified with religion: Catholicism; just as their arch rivals; the UDA (Ulster defense assocsiation) are equally indivisible from thier religion: Anglicanism.

Both are succoured by priests; indeed the UDA is led by one.

I've never heard any religious body; Catholic nor Anglican; decry thier activities other than bland platitudes immeadatly after yet another parent has been blown away in front of his/her kids or particularly graphic pix of kiddies limbs are shown on T.V.

As to degree; the number of deaths due to these groups is higher than the number of American victims of terrorism; up to and including a direct assault on the British government.

However; whilst we've been talking about Bush's "war on terror" for a couple of years now; I've still not seen your government nor ours formaly announce that they will no longer _them selves_ use terror to further their aims.

And if the nuclear powered leaders of "TWOT" refuse to give up this particular means of waging war; why should they expect any one else to?

I'm not sure where you are from but I've been a little closer to the issue over the years. I have seen and heard church leaders on both sides repeatedly condem the actions of terrorists. So you are simply incorrect. You would also be wrong in suggesting that the issue is solely religious even though in effect it fell on those lines. The IRA's sole cause is nationalist and republican. The UDA/UVF's cause is remaining British. It wasn't a religious war even if it seemed like that to the uninformed observer.

lazs2 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:27:34 PM »

chairboyu... I am sorry if I gave you the impression that I found murder ok so long as it wasn't directed at me. that is not the case. I am saying that it is a matter of degree.. the muslim terrorists are way off the scale compared to a few nutball abortion clinic burners or doctor killers.

Your being an athiest has nothing to do with it and I admire someone who has the faith to be an atheist even if I have no idea how you could possibly know and find blind faith like yours a little odd.... many killers and terrorists are athiests... no one has a lock on it.

And... the muslim terrorists are a world wide threat.

As for the guys saying the IRA and it's counterparts are affiliated with religion... that is true enough but I can't think of any catholics who would condone them killing anyone based on religious belief.

I can think of no wing of the catholic church that would support the IRA killing innocent people. If we find such a wing then we need to imprison or kill every living sole within that wing.

lazs

Skydancer · « **Reply #35 on:** July 14, 2005, 04:28:12 PM »

I knew a few members of my ex wifes catholic and Irish clan who condoned it!

cpxxx · « **Reply #36 on:** July 14, 2005, 06:24:29 PM »

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Originally posted by Skydancer
I knew a few members of my ex wifes catholic and Irish clan who condoned it!

I know plenty too. I have great arguments . I'm constantly accused of being a 'West Brit'.

Mostly though you get the 'Yes but' arguments. They whinge about the the awfulness of the British. But can't get their heads round the fact of the awfulness of their so called freedom fighters.

I think it's probably the same for many British Muslims. Having said that many will have got a nasty shock. Their ambivalence might now shift into active distaste for extremists.

The 'cause' is all very well. But when the body count starts to mount up. People see the reality.

I know that happened in Ireland as each IRA atrocity shook people into realising they were nothing more than terrorists who brought shame and disgrace to their country.

I suspect many Muslims feel that too.

Vulcan · « **Reply #37 on:** July 14, 2005, 07:02:22 PM »

One could compare the Islamic internal attitude towards extremists to Catholicisms stance on confession.

One day I'm gonna get sick of them all and start my own Buddhist Jihad Amy of Fat B'stards.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #38 on:** July 14, 2005, 07:51:02 PM »

IMHO I dont think extreme christians who blow up abortion clinics or IRA bombers to be in the same league as islamic terrorists.

Not that they arent as deserving of a noose but that they really arent global in nature. That's not to say that they might not expand but I think when it comes to terrorism Islamic Terrorists really do take the cake.

You'll have to pardon the American ignorance but is the IRA even active anymore? I havnt heard a peep out of them in years in our press.

cpxxx · « **Reply #39 on:** July 14, 2005, 09:09:37 PM »

Oh they are still around Gunslinger. As the leader of Sinn Fein once famously said. 'They haven't gone away, you know'.
The 'war' is over. Politics is being tried. They don't shoot policeman or soldiers or plant bombs anymore.

At the moment they confine themselves to punishment beatings for teenage delinquents. Robbing banks for their pension fund. Extorting money from honest businessmen and drug dealers. Money laundering and legitimate businesses. Murdering people who upset their members. Generally throwing their weight around in a way that is gradually alienating them from the people who once supported them.

Their nasty offspring. The dissident Republicans. The Real IRA and Continuity IRA are still active but relatively ineffective. since they exploded a bomb on a crowded shopping street in a small town called Omagh killing 28 people.
Since then they have been on everyone's hate list including the PIRA.

That was a pivotal moment. It changed attitudes. Hopefully the London bombings will do the same for those Muslims inclined to think the terrorists cause is justified.

lazs2 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 15, 2005, 08:33:27 AM »

cpx... exactly... since they killed all those inocents they are on "everyones hate list"... even the guys who would condone them killing cops and soldiers and mafia like crime..

With these muslims and their supporters no crime is to great to appease allah... 50 frigging virgins time.. kill the infidels.. crash airliners full of families into buildings full of families? worth it for allah the good.... bomb a subway? allah will give you 50 virgins and all your friends will smile on you. maybe some sheik will give your family a bunch of money.

people don't see the difference? they are blind.

lazs

Skydancer · « **Reply #41 on:** July 15, 2005, 11:08:27 AM »

Yes I know quite few few people who winge about our awfullness, but they still want to live here! That was true of my ex wifes family as it was true of my muslim computer engineer. If you don't like it sod off and live in those places you profess to like thats what I say.

Me I happen to like it here. ( good job realy!

)

Silat · « **Reply #42 on:** July 15, 2005, 12:58:42 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2

It is so obvious that the guy is not following christian principals and there are SO FEW christians doing what he does that he is not worth mentioning by other christians... There is no christian jihad.

lazs

And not mentioning it was exactly what most Christians did.

Those who are not Christian may disagree with you about there not being a Christian Jihad.

Let us take care of the fanatics here in America first.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #43 on:** July 15, 2005, 01:58:09 PM »

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Originally posted by Silat
And not mentioning it was exactly what most Christians did.

Those who are not Christian may disagree with you about there not being a Christian Jihad.

Let us take care of the fanatics here in America first.

when was the last terrorist suicide bombing attack committed by a Christian in America.

It's funny how there are more acts of violence recently committed by MUSLIMS in the name of Islam and Allah yet this conversation has been completly turned into how bad Christians and the IRA seem to be????

Pongo · « **Reply #44 on:** July 15, 2005, 07:50:59 PM »

In their heart of hearts I think most muslims deeply respect the suicide bombers.