More than pizza in Italy

[Clifra Jones]

Edited to stop this now.

I was going to post some news articles to counter Furballs comments but it's not worth any hard feelings to attempt to win an argument.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
There Furball.  I have to agree the title was pretty bad.  Class A troll material there.

Agreed, that was not the intention.

[Skuzzy]

If I mean to say something directly to someone, I say it directly to someone.

But, now that you bring it up, you said;

"Your own BBC is afraid to call them 'terrorists'."

Do you really know why they do not use the term? Or are you just guessing?  The fact they do not use it, does not mean they are afraid to use it.  If your facts are firsthand knowledge, then I apologize for the poor example I used.  If your source is some news media bite, then you are basing your opinion on someone else's opinion, but stating it as if it were fact.

And that is what I am getting at.  When you do that it just serves to stir the pot.

EDIT:  Clifra, I figured you did not mean it that way.  If you prefer another title, I will be happy to change it.  It was hte closest thing I could come up with in short notice.

EDIT2:  Wotan, let me make this perfectly clear, for everyone as a matter of fact.  Emotion plays no factor in dealing with this board.  None.  I do not get mad, I do not get glad, I just try to help make this place a decent place for discussions.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Furball
i have no problem with this thread apart from the title which makes out that the country that i live is clueless.  in fact, the title made me very pissed off.

That was not my intention at all. In fact I should have replace the word Europe with World as we in this country have not done that good a job of stopping the hate mongers either.

It just struck me as engouraging that the Italian were actually doing something "before" innocent people died.

[Furball]

Wotan.  My response was directly from the title:-

"So we dont have a clue?"

you responded "not really"

So i justified why i felt we are experienced with terrorism and how that the recent attacks were un-preventable due to the nature of the terrorists (see the links i posted), no matter what precautions we took.  So, in fact, we do have a clue... barring Israel, we are probably amongst those most experienced in dealing with terrorism.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Skuzzy

EDIT:  Clifra, I figured you did not mean it that way.  If you prefer another title, I will be happy to change it.  It was hte closest thing I could come up with in short notice.

Nope, works for me.

[Wotan]

Originally posted by Furball
Wotan.  My response was directly from the title:-

"So we dont have a clue?"

you responded "not really"

So i justified why i felt we are experienced with terrorism and how that the recent attacks were un-preventable due to the nature of the terrorists (see the links i posted), no matter what precautions we took.  So, in fact, we do have a clue... barring Israel, we are probably amongst those most experienced in dealing with terrorism.

I agree with you 100% in that a determined killer with a suicide wish can cause 'terror' in even the most 'closed' societies.

The only ones to blame for those terror acts in London are those that planned and carried it out. As Hangtime said in an open society (which I am sure we all prefer even if it doesn't apply to this forum ) it is hard to just start rounding people up based just on minimal suspicion.

In the US even with the Patriot act we don't have some of the legal tools that Britain and the some EU nations have.

My point was that (and correct me if I am wrong) that Britain has certain hate-speech laws and from what I have read these are rarely enforced against some of the more radical and extreme elements with in the British Islamic community. I sited the fact that the London Police were helping to pay for a radical Cleric to come to London from Switzerland.

This is not to say 'America has more of a clue' we do our own share of 'clueless shyte'.

FYI, When I read the title I didn't immediately assume the 'clueless' reference was toward Britain but could apply to any number of Nations.

[Furball]

Well, i wouldnt expect you to as you are not in europe!

if i said "at least someone in north america has a clue!" and did a post about canada i'm sure you would be a little irked too

As for the laws on "hate speech", they have been very relaxed, there was the guy (Abu Hamza?) who is currently under ongoing house arrest for inciting racial hatred at a north london mosque.  It is hard to enforce such laws when, as it has been said, we are free and open societies.  Freedom of speech and all that.  However, Blair is trying to push for new laws to prevent this.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13386396,00.html

[Wotan]

If I mean to say something directly to someone, I say it directly to someone.

But, now that you bring it up, you said;

"Your own BBC is afraid to call them 'terrorists'."

Do you really know why they do not use the term? Or are you just guessing? The fact they do not use it, does not mean they are afraid to use it. If your facts are firsthand knowledge, then I apologize for the poor example I used. If your source is some news media bite, then you are basing your opinion on someone else's opinion, but stating it as if it were fact.

And that is what I am getting at. When you do that it just serves to stir the pot.

Well there was only one person that directly mentioned Britain in reference to  'clueless'. Thats was me but as an answer to Furball.  The original poster didn't say Britain was clueless, that was an assumption (ie speculation) on the part of others.

So you can clearly see where I took your general statement to mean me, after all who else made such a direct reference?

My source for how the BBC decides to refer to those who committed the terrible acts in London is not some biased editorial opinion but the BBC itself. They have a fear of offending the Islamic community on the one hand and a fear of contributing to any lash back some elements of the British Public make make on innocent Islamists.

This fear of 'offense' and 'vigilantism' has been echoed by various British news organization and expressed by the British PM himself.

Wotan, let me make this perfectly clear, for everyone as a matter of fact. Emotion plays no factor in dealing with this board. None. I do not get mad, I do not get glad, I just try to help make this place a decent place for discussions.

The original poster never said directly that 'Britain was clueless' those assumptions were made by 'emotional people' and understandably so.

You replied with:

This is going down fast folks. All you back-seat drivers need to get with the program and think before you type. How many of you are privvy to first hand information on the why's and how's of the British empire?

That sure reads like an emotional response to me.

'get with the program'..?

Who talks like that?

Any who, its your playground set what ever rules you want...

[Skuzzy]

Everyone I know talks like that.  It's just 'as a matter of fact' kind of thing.

As far as the rules go.  If you really, honestly looked at them.  They are only there to keep the board decent and respectful.  If you, or anyone else, dose not like that, then so be it.

People are just wierd when they think they are being restricted.  Intelligent people act like children when they think thier lollipop has been taken away from them.
People get paranoid and think someone is out to get them.

I realize those are generalities and do not apply to everyone, but I find it really bizarre how people will strive to make someone else the bad guy, when in fact, the only bad guy there can be is the poster themself.  
I have often wondered about the people who insist on labeling people.  According to Webster's that would be bigotry.  Does not seem to bother some people though.

People make a lot of assumptions about how things are, how they think they are, or how who is doing what using which motives.

Here is a suggestion.  Stop worrying about it and just discuss.  If you have a fundamental problem with being civil towards others, or have no concept of right from wrong, then no amount of control is going to hide it long and it will just serve to make that person angry they cannot emit thier explosive poop on the unsuspecting masses.

You know what?  We all have rules to live by.  They may be personal rules or philosophies which we use everyday to live by, but they are rules which govern us.  You do not have to like them, but you should respect them.  We ask for no more or less.

EDIT:  Clifra, I apologize for this blatant hijack.  Wotan, if you want to discuss this further, email me.  Thank you.