What about new 109's

[Wotan]

It's not that simple Kev...

C3 fuel had good rich mixture performance almost equal to 100/150 fuel.  Lean mixture performance was somewhat poorer.

Fischer-Tropsch

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Karnak - C3 Fuel, 100/130 or 100/150?

Seen both suggested, not just here either.

I know it is a complex issue, I was just pointing out that AH does not model aircraft on an ideal best, it models them as the performed as closely as can be determined.

I don't personally have enough info to comment of the Bf109K-4 1.8ata vs 1.98ata.  I trust Pyro to do what is best.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Wotan
It's not that simple Kev...

C3 fuel had good rich mixture performance almost equal to 100/150 fuel.  Lean mixture performance was somewhat poorer.

Fischer-Tropsch

Probably explain why both are stated as equivalent?

[FalconSix]

Originally posted by Karnak
FalconSix,

The Ki-84 was designed to use the higher octane fuel, not the crap the Japanese had.  You're flat wrong.  It used their fuel because that is all they had.

Why else do you think it is using a derated engine?

When did the Japanese use more than 87 octane avgas?

[Karnak]

Ki-84 was designed for 90, and was running on 84, if that. I'd not be surprised if the late war crap was even below 80 octane.

The Japanese fuel in '44 and '45 was complete junk with stuff like pine additives to try to boost it.  We had crushed their ability to refine even 87 octane.

The Ki-84's engine was designed for fuel the Japanese couldn't produce anymore.  In addition it was designed to use Methanol/Water injection, the lack of which in the US test was used to justify the higher octane American fuel used.

[FalconSix]

Originally posted by Karnak
In addition it was designed to use Methanol/Water injection, the lack of which in the US test was used to justify the higher octane American fuel used.

In that case shouldn't the Frank be faster in AH?

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by FalconSix
And btw. you should be careful using words like "not true". "Incorrect" would have served the same purpose without implying I was lying.

If I wanted to call you a liar I would have said 'you lie'.    

[Karnak]

Originally posted by FalconSix
In that case shouldn't the Frank be faster in AH?

My guess would be that due to the fuel and poor manufacturing quality in the late war the methanol/water wasn't used much, if at all.  Documentation is scarce though.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by FalconSix
The BMW801 radial engine used in the 190A series could only run on C3 fuel (roughly equivalent to US/UK 100/130 octane). So from 1941 onwards all 190 squadrons used C3 exclusively.

This doc seems to show that captured C3 samples were avaiable as early as Battle of Britain in 1940.

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/Tom%20Reels/Linked/A5464/A5464-0560-0635%20Item%205.pdf

Would do a 'proper' image but the doc is 7mb+

Note the heading says samples obtained 1940 to 1943.

First paragraph
Spread over a period of 3 1/2 years, since the introduction during the Battle of Britain in the late summer of 1940, some 22 authentic samples of the green C3 type of aviation gasoline have been examined.

Interesting huh? Any idea which aircraft?

I agreeing with FalconSix original post that Germany used C3 throughout the war. (the worlds coming to and end

[FalconSix]

lol yeah, the end is near.

I seem to remember reading that the German race planes used C3 in the 1930s. That's why (+the 190) I assumed C3 was available throughout the entire war.

[Kev367th]

Lol.

Hey there lots of interesting stuff on that site.
Lot of declassified docs etc regarding fuel and oil estimates, methods, in fact all sorts of stuff.

mostly here
http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/gvt-reports_toc.htm

I think a forum where we could post links to this sort of info(historical docs etc) would be useful.
Not links to sites with personal interpretations, but to sites that hold archives.

[Wotan]

This doc seems to show that captured C3 samples were avaiable as early as Battle of Britain in 1940.

The DB601N (109E-4N / BF 109E-7 / 110C-4/B (C-7) all used C2 (C2 was the natural 100 octane fuel which was replaced by the synthetic C3 early on) and / or C-3...