Author Topic: Gaming rig on the cheap... (Read 614 times)

Urchin · « **on:** July 18, 2005, 09:54:21 PM »

Ok, I just had my last computer die on me. I want to build a cheap gaming rig that I can upgrade for a couple (2-3) years.

Here is what I've got in mind.

Asus A8V Motherboard ($98)
AMD 64 3200+ CPU ($169)
WD 120 Gig 7200 RPM 8MB buffer HDD ($83)
CDRW + CD/DVD drive ($55 total)
SB Audigy (3 I think) ($43)
ATI Radeon X800 Pro AGP 256 Mb ($226)
2X Kingston 512 Mb PC3200/DDR400 RAM ($90 total)

Add in $30(?) for a case and $15 for XP Pro (through school) and I'm set with a total of $809.

I have a few questions though, and I'd appreciate the help before I start putting this sucker together.

I picked the Asus A8V motherboard because it is Socket 939 and should be compatible with everything AMD makes all the way up to the FX-57, if and when CPU prices come down enough that I could pick up a screamer like that for pretty cheap. My question is will I be able to swap out CPUs when the time comes? I am terribly out of date when it comes to computers, since I just bought my last one and put in a decent video card and sound card.

Whats with the "PC-XXXX" DDR ram? I know the A8V uses DDR-400 RAM, whats the difference between the different "PC" things?

Am I forgetting anything really obvious? Do I need to worry about what kind of power supply I get, or should I just get a 550W and forget about it? Most of the cases I was looking at come with the power supplies, and they seem to be the same price from 275W all the way up to 550... so why would you go with a less powerful one?

I looked at quite a few video cards before deciding on the X800 Pro. It seemed to perform as well as the Nvidia cards (in the "midrange" anyway, the XT is the real kickass card but I can't afford that). My real question is whats the difference between the PCIe and the AGP versions? I know AGP used to be considered a lot better than PCI, because data could be moved faster, but I haven't had much luck with finding the performance of the AGP version stacked up with the PCIe version. If someone could enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2005, 10:18:56 PM »

PC-XXXX tells you what series the RAM is, what the FSB speed is. PC-2100 is 266 FSB (the slowest DDR RAM). PC-2700 is 333 FSB, and PC-3200 is 400 FSB. All are compatible with each other, the faster sticks just run at the speed of the slowest stick.

Dont confuse PCI with PCI express. They are totally different things. PCI express (in theory) is faster than AGP, but real world use shows that right now neither one is any faster than the other. The main reasons for you to go PCI express right now are:

1) AGP is on the way out. They are still making low to mid range boards with AGP, but how much longer they will is anyone's guess. I'd say at least another year. But all the high end stuff is going to be coming out PCI express. And eventually it will be faster than AGP. Buy a decent PCI express card now, you probably ensure you'll be able to use it in your next upgrade, if the next generation cards dont totally blow this one away.

2) Your X800 is actually going to be a bit faster in PCI express (although whether or not its even measurable who knows?) because those cards were built to run natively in PCI express, and use a "translator" for those built to work in AGP slots. The same can be said of the Geforce 6600 series, its a native PCIe card too.

Easyscor · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2005, 12:08:30 AM »

I'm not up to date on this stuff either but add a processor fan for around $50 and check that $30 case for enough cooling. The power supply in my last case was DOA, and my first thought was I'd somehow zapped the mobo or processor.

Hey SoA, is the PCIe spec for all the slots now or just a video slot like AGP?

Thanks

Roscoroo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2005, 12:13:21 AM »

on some of the boards its pcie for all the slots ... sometimes each one uses a different voltage though .
2.0
1.5
1.0 ect

you have to study the boards specs very carefully when looking at pcie stuff .

JTs · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2005, 02:27:14 AM »

Urchin
this is a good power supply and it does'nt sound like a flight of F16 taking off.
JT

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S47ATX

Schutt · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2005, 04:15:19 AM »

I dont understand what roscoroo wants to say, sorry.

Apart from that i would not buy a AGP board. With athlon 64 i would get a nforce4 ultra board. For example MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum, Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-9 or Epox 9NPA+ Ultra. If your partial to Asus maybe A8N-E but i dont know anything about that board.

PCIe is the new standart for graphics cards and soon it will be hard to get AGP cards when you want the newest models.

PCIe as in PCI express is verry diffrent from PCI. It is not better than AGP but its more future save. Of course, the next slot for graphics boards will come out some time, but for now they ll keep pcie for a while.

PCI and PCIe cards are not compatible. So you need a board with at least 1 PCI slot to fit the soundcard in.

Advantage of your setup is that its cheaper... but you talk about upgrade possible during the next 2 years and i doubt that you get an top AGP graphics board in 2 years.

Is the hard drive a SATA one? id definetly get a serial ata hard drive.

Urchin · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2005, 08:16:47 AM »

Whats the difference between an IDE HDD and a SATA HDD?

Schutt · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2005, 08:38:29 AM »

Serial ATA uses a diffrent interface where the bits travel behind each other which makes for cables with less lines in parallel.
So thinner cable and better to plug in and out.

Also you have only one drive per channle which makes for easier and less troublesome connection, no need to set master/slave.

The drive has the full bandwidth which is not shared with another drive.

Since IDE in the latest spec is already faster than any hard drive there is no real speed gain i think, but not sure about that.

The newest SATA incorporates NCQ, Native Command Queing, which makes the drive a bit faster if it supports it. But that only shows in servers, no gain in the desktop.

So i prefer SATA for easier installation and good performance, but IDE HDDs are ok too if they go by cheaper.

Urchin · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2005, 08:47:13 AM »

Well, I can get a 160 Gig SATA HDD for a little less than the 120 Gig IDE, and I'm thinking about getting the Asus A8N-SLI motherboard with the PCIe version of the X800 Pro.

It would be a little more expensive than what I had originally planned (about $50), but the A8N-SLI is compatible with all the CPUs AMD makes up to the FX-57 just like the A8V is, and it has that whole SLI thing going if I wanted to do that. I think I'd have to go with Nvidia cards for that, don't think ATI does the SLI thing yet.

Roscoroo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:26:12 AM »

ill try to find the board i saw that had the different voltages per each slot (pcie)

it was really strange that each slot had a diff value for every one..

i believe it was a msi .

it caught my attention because it looks like you can use only a certian type card in each slot . (kinda a buyer beware thing ,cause your gonna be stuck buying there cards)

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2005, 11:51:57 AM »

Yeah, the PCIe 1x slots are like the size of the riser-card modem slots. Very tiny. A PCIe 16x slot looks rather similar to an AGP slot.

eagl · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2005, 09:36:18 PM »

I'm with schutt here. Spend whatever's necessary to get pci-e instead of AGP, and use one of the newer SATA drives. If you choose carefully it shouldn't cost too much more.

I'll also repeat my recommendation for regular crucial.com memory. The quality and customer support is extremely good, at a reasonable price. No need to go for their ballistix memory unless you're overclocking, but their regular stuff is pretty good and reasonably priced especially when you consider the warranty.

Urchin · « **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2005, 11:28:37 AM »

Ok, here is what I decided on.

A8N-SLI Deluxe (~160 on newegg.com)
AMD 3200+ Socket 939 (~180 on Ewiz.com)
WD 120 Gig 7200 RPM 8MB Buffer SATA HDD (~78 on Ewiz.com)
ATI Radeon X800 Pro PCIe (~250 on Monarchcomputers.com)
2x512 Mb PC3200 DDR400 RAM (~140 on crucial.com)

With just those it comes out to ~$800.

I have an IDE DVD drive, and an IDE CD burner I'd like to re-use, as well as a SB Audigy sound card (that doesn't seem to work real well, I may get a new one).

I need to buy a case, and I want to make sure the damn thing doesn't overheat, so I need some good "cooling" advice. I'm hoping computers aren't to hard to put together still lol.

I am going to go look for the parts at CompUSA and see what kind of prices I can get there, if it is comparable (within 10-15%) I may just buy the stuff there just to save myself some time and aggravation.

streakeagle · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2005, 12:05:32 PM »

I was going to try to build a decent gaming rig for $1000. But I decided to try to avoid getting upgrades for awhile. Here is what I ended up with from http://www.NewEgg.com (with full approval of my wife

, though she probably won't let me buy anything else for a year) :

$367.00 for 1 AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3800BPBOX - Retail
$303.20 for 1 CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit - Retail
$283.00 for 1 ASUS EAX800XL/2DTV/256 Radeon X800XL 256MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
$166.00 for 2 Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA II Hard Drive - OEM
$109.00 for 1 BFG nForce 4 Ultra Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
$95.00 for 1 Antec Performance I P160 Silver 1.2mm anodized aluminum ATX Mid Tower Case - Retail
$74.00 for 1 Antec NeoPower ATX 480W Power Supply - Retail
$71.99 for 1 SONY White IDE DVD Burner Model DRU720A - Retail

Subtotal: $1,469.19
Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $51.75<-2nd Day FedEx, so I should have this rig up and running by Friday
Total: $1,520.94

I could have saved $218 if I would have settled for the 3000 (1.8GHz) cpu, but the 3800 (2.4GHz) cpu is exactly twice the speed of my current P3 Tualatin (the FSB is also 7.5 times faster).
I could have saved $200 if I would have settled for 2x512MB of value RAM, but 2GB is twice the RAM of my existing system and is effectively 1600MHz (12 times faster than my old PC133!).
The video card has twice the RAM (clocked 44% faster) and twice the pipelines (clocked 5% faster) as my 9800 Pro.
I could have saved $20 on the hard drives, but it was a small cost for top of the line SATA2 performance (6 times faster than my ATA100 drives when paired in a RAID 0 configuration).
I could have saved $20 on the motherboard, but the cheaper ones didn't have SATA2 (normal SATA has half the performance of SATA2).
I got a top-notch case and power supply, but it was only $73 more than my original budget.
The DVD burner was actually lower than the local CompUSA sale/rebate pricing.
Taking into account all of the above, I could have spent only $1050, but the extra money ensures I won't want or need upgrades for awhile...
Other than another 2GB of RAM to fill in the empty slots and eventually a 512MB RAM video card with twice the pipelines of this one

:)