Author Topic: The welll armed citizen should have.. (Read 1276 times)

Toad · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2005, 06:03:09 PM »

Forget the "same cartridge" idea. You want a handgun that seriously stops the argument at close range and a rifle cartridge that can reach out and do the same at a distance.

You want both to use "readily available" ammo.

OK... here you go:

AR - 10(T) Carbine .308

For the pistol, I like the Sig 220 in .45 ACP idea.

Classic Full Size P220

Gunthr · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2005, 06:18:14 PM »

yeah, but the thing is, he wants somthing he can buy cheap.

A short 12 gauge shotgun with slugs and buck loads with nine pellets... they throw more lead than machine guns in the same time.

Its cheap, deadly and doable.

Maverick · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2005, 09:35:36 PM »

Best option for "cheap" is a used .357 revolver in good shape and a Winchester 30-30 for hunting. It's good through Black Bear and Elk within it's range. The 30-30 is a far better choice than a Marlin in either .357 or .44. It's a solid rifle cartridge. Good simple firearms for only occasional use and they will get the job done. Each is very common and ammo is readily available.

The old WW2 rifles that were dirt cheap and available to customizing are drying up now and prices are rising. By the time you get done it would be cheaper to buy a comparable caliber civilian bolt action.

Hangtime · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2005, 10:12:01 PM »

A lever action carbine does a pretty good job with pistol ammo (.357 or 44mag) out to 150 yards or so. Pretty decent if in wooded or brushy terrain.

I played around with a .357 colt peacemaker, had a hat 'n everything, jus like jesse james.

Was looking at a marlin camp .45 carbine a few years back.. looked pretty good. Heard it was pretty quiet too... big 'ol slow subsonic slug outta a long barrel..

prolly only good to 150 yards, tops.

*sigh* always compromises, enh?

Gunslinger · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2005, 11:01:07 PM »

I'm surprised no one has mentioned any .40 cal weapon yet.

Hang my 2 cents.....studies have shown that one of the most frightening and yet effective sounds for pacifying somone is the Cocking of a shotgun.

In a small room in the still of the night I think it really does have the "make the perp crap his pants" effect you want in home deffense.

eagl · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2005, 11:20:25 PM »

I really like my .40 beretta, much more than the half dozen other .40s I've tried out, but everyone else seems to bag on it so I don't offer it up for discussion much anymore.

I also like the .40 round as a compromise between the puny 9mm and the modern .45 which kills my wrist, but then people start bagging on the .40 because of the 10mm which hardly anyone uses anyhow even though it's somehow "universally accepted" as being better than the .40. Except that it has a longer casing so it makes the grip larger and tougher for the average person to hold on to.

I even have a cool San Diego County Sheriff special edition single action revolver chambered in .40... A Ruger Vaquero if I recall correctly, and I got it cheap because it was a factory second due to flawed commemorative engraving on the barrel. Now that gun is fun to shoot, a real old-skool "cowboy" sort of weapon. It's the one I keep for home defense at the bedside on the theory that any intruder who manages to get into my bedroom is not going to expect a single action revolver, so if he gets ahold of the gun he'll probably waste some time wondering why the gun doesn't work when he pulls on the trigger. It's not much, but I figure it's better than encouraging him to stab me with a steak knife while I'm awake.

Come to think about it, I just might buy some broken guns and leave them out on the theory that most burglers are stupid and greedy, so they'll go for the gun every time. Might as well give him a broken one so all he can do is try to club me with it

Golfer · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2005, 11:21:55 PM »

I shoot either one just as fast as the other but I personally use a Remington 11-87 as my primary hunting weapon. Semi automatic, holds 4+1 in the chamber 12 gauge shotgun shells.

With the 870 pump you can do no wrong, reliable and just as mentioned before about the studies that show...the cocking of a shotgun is going to make intruders think twice about their current situation.

For around the house, the 870 is also very light. That is also a big plus for carrying it in the woods. I've never had my 11-87 (semi automatic) jam except when I used very low powered rounds with the gun very dirty. Such as the end of the day during a trap competition after firing 150 shots or the end of a week-long dove hunting trip when you can shoot a lot...an awful lot. The 870 jamming is unheard of from my experience...so thats a consideration you may want to have if the weapon is for home defense.

Pistols...take your pick. You can deafen an intruder and yourself all at once by firing a .44 Magnum in the house. In conversation with police officers who have seen the effects, I'm told that the 9mm can't even compare to a .40 caliber. .40 caliber hands down for automatic pistols.

I'd pick something you can plink with and use in the field rather than having it only confined to a drawer of a nightstand.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2005, 11:34:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eagl
I really like my .40 beretta, much more than the half dozen other .40s I've tried out, but everyone else seems to bag on it so I don't offer it up for discussion much anymore.

I also like the .40 round as a compromise between the puny 9mm and the modern .45 which kills my wrist, but then people start bagging on the .40 because of the 10mm which hardly anyone uses anyhow even though it's somehow "universally accepted" as being better than the .40. Except that it has a longer casing so it makes the grip larger and tougher for the average person to hold on to.

I even have a cool San Diego County Sheriff special edition single action revolver chambered in .40... A Ruger Vaquero if I recall correctly, and I got it cheap because it was a factory second due to flawed commemorative engraving on the barrel. Now that gun is fun to shoot, a real old-skool "cowboy" sort of weapon. It's the one I keep for home defense at the bedside on the theory that any intruder who manages to get into my bedroom is not going to expect a single action revolver, so if he gets ahold of the gun he'll probably waste some time wondering why the gun doesn't work when he pulls on the trigger. It's not much, but I figure it's better than encouraging him to stab me with a steak knife while I'm awake.

Come to think about it, I just might buy some broken guns and leave them out on the theory that most burglers are stupid and greedy, so they'll go for the gun every time. Might as well give him a broken one so all he can do is try to club me with it

Don't most police use the .40 because it has more knockdown power than a 9mm but without the kick of the .45 and is less likely to pass through a person?

Hangtime · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2005, 11:57:11 PM »

Haven't had a pistol in the house for 30 years.. not really considering own home defense.. more vehicle and travel defense. agree on the sound of a slide of a shotgun being stroked from behind a door.. if things got that ugly in my neigborhood I'd just move. But I take the point; an 18" mossberg defender is prime.

Same for the 'long' gun.. assuming i'd be using it from cover at fairly close range.. if it'll hit reliably at 200 yards with open sights that'd be fine. Also not really looking for a 'home defense' weapon in the traditional sense.. but it would have to be a good 'from the window' kinda gun.

should i get off the 'one ammo' kick; Who makes a carbine in any caliber that costs under $400.00 ? Any good nato round surplus stuff around? And is surplus nato ammo cheap and available?

Toad · « **Reply #24 on:** July 24, 2005, 12:09:31 AM »

Hit what reliably at 200 yards?

One of the cheapest to buy and buy ammo for carbines is the SKS. Most of them will shoot 3" at 100 yards from what I've heard.

If you're shooting at a deer, you should be able to hit it with an SKS out to 150 yards pretty easily which is all the SKS cartridge should be asked to do. Basically, the SKS round is close to a .30-30. It's not really a long range round in the sense of a .308.

An SKS is cheap and so is the ammo. Might work for ya. Note the Yugo SKS's don't have chrome lined bores. You need to clean them quick when shooting corrosive (cheap) ammo.

Squire · « **Reply #25 on:** July 24, 2005, 12:12:09 AM »

Any 12 guage police/military style shotgun will do. They are tremendously reliable, have awesome power and are very easy to use and load. Slug or 00. Lighter and smaller than many rifles. They cost about 150 bucks.

I have a Mossberg Maverick 12 guage police. Its the scariest thing I have ever fired, and I was in the Army Reserve as an Infantrymen. It will shoot through just about anything and it sounds like a howitzer when it goes off.

A friend of mine has a Chinese made SKS. Great bush gun. Reliable as anything.

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 24, 2005, 12:13:45 AM »

I take it you havent been to a gun show lately have you?

Here's my "last resort" lineup, what I keep for home defense/end of the world scenario/I've gone off my rocker and start killing people indiscriminately scenario. J/K with the last one.

.357 Rossi with the factory rubber grips. Loaded with Glaser rounds in the house, CorBons for anything else. Mossberg "riot" gun with the short barrel and 8 round capacity, pistol grip stock, loaded with 00 Buckshot. Russian M44 7.62x54 stripped of its military hardware and put on a synthetic stock, setup with the small Russian sniper style scope. Accurate out past 200 yards. Thats as far as I've tested it anyway. I prefer the Winchester Silver-Tips for this. Theres lots of surplus ammo out there, but its all FMJ and dirty shooting stuff. The Winchester ammo is more accurate at distance and shoots cleaner, and its not that expensive. Finding it is harder, but most decent gun stores can get it.

Those Russian rifles are really a good deal. I'd personally recommend the M38 instead of the M44 I have, same gun it just doesnt have the bayonet attatchment on the barrel. I bought two of them for $50 each, and I have an M38 but it's in the closet at my brother's house. I intend someday to swap the M38 barrel assembly onto the synthetic, restore one of the M44's to military specs, and keep it for show. The M38 cost me more, but it was still under $300, and it was in nearly perfect condition. The Russians used those bolt action guns all through WWII, and they made the rounds in Vietnam too as sniper rifles. The bullets are about the same size as a Brit .303 round. Packs one helluva punch.

Toad · « **Reply #27 on:** July 24, 2005, 12:26:41 AM »

Just saw new/unissued Yugo SKS's for $225 and Chinese unissued for the same price.

I'm thinking it's a cheap, reliable carbine at that price.

Lizard3 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 24, 2005, 12:43:02 AM »

Ruger has some carbines in .40S&W and 9mm for under $650 suggested. The use the ruger pistol clips. Although I would prefer .45, I hear .40 is OK.

Ruger Carbines

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #29 on:** July 24, 2005, 01:25:01 AM »

If you are looking at a Sig the best prices on Sig Handguns I have seen are here:

http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/index.htm

I have pretty much chosen to go with a Sig P226.

The only things to decide on are 9mm vs .40cal and New In Box or Sig's Certified pre owned. The price difference from the website above is $200, $465 vs $669.