black out turns

[SKurj]

Something that is not really mentioned here...
In RL i'd imagine that as the pilot has only lost vision, he has not lost his other senses.  With the exception of hearing, something all of us sim pilots NEVER had.  We lose our sight (blackout) we have absolutely zero feedback.  I think its about time a sim came up with better g-force feedback.  A pilot in real life could tell the difference between 2g and 5 without looking at his guages.  I'd like to see a graphical representation better able to present we, the sim pilots with better gee feedback.  A colour bar with an indicator visible in all views or some such thing.  Prior to reaching black out gee levels an experienced fighter pilot could tell gee levels by feel no matter where he is looking.
We sim pilots need something such that we can do the same.

AKskurj

[Midnight]

 

Originally posted by Vulcan:
Or maybe blackouts/redouts should use the head-drop featured in pilot wounded (you know when the head drops as you blackout, slowly rises as you regain)

That is the best idea I have ever heard about blackouts. It would work too. If you yanked so hard as to go into total blackout, you should have head drop and recovery time.

The other problem in here is how fast you black out. In RL blackout is not instantaneous based on G-load, as it is in AH now. As you hold high Gs your vision starts to go away but it is only after a couple seconds when the oxygen already in your eyes/brain is used up.

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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS

[SFRT - Frenchy]

when u black out, screen fully black, the controls are no more active and you fly straight.

Simple.

[lazs]

Heard some roller coasters are now getting about 5 g's.   Little girls ride em with no ill affects.
lazs

[Mk10 225th]

Y'know Frenchy, that may have been the way it was modeled in SDOE.

I think I can remember flying behind someone, making them pull hard to evade my lead shot, and watching the airplane straighten out, and thinking, "Ah-ha!  Blacked out!  Hee-hee!" and then pouncing.

Mk

[eagl]

Maybe HTC should perk g-suits or higher G tolerance?  



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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!

[Wlfgng]

Does it really matter since everyone in the game is dealing with the exact same thing?
Whatever the settings or effects, it's the same for everyone.

.    
EMAIL  assassins@aceshighcs.com            
EMAIL  wlfgng@aceshighcs.com  


[This message has been edited by Wlfgng (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Sparks]

I was about to post on blackouts but I'll add here. I wonder if there has been any testing on different systems as to how and when the software shows blackout because I have seen times when I was at the edge of blackout and the aircraft I am pursueing seems to be able to turn tighter for longer.

I am wondering how this works in the software.  A specific G level is associated with a specific radius of turn and speed. That radius and speed determines the aircraft's 3D postion in space and time which must be passed to the server. I am wondering if different system specs are able to do the math at different rates which alters the postion in space that is sent to the server and also when the graphics card displays blackout.

[Lephturn]

Sparks,

That blackout calculation is happening on your FE, and would not have anything to do with the server.

The blackout limit is the same for everybody.  Generally the difference you are seeing is simply speed.  If you are even a bit faster than the other guy, he be able to turn tighter.  This can be VERY hard to judge, especially with the effects of net lag and such that we deal with in an online flight sim.  Add to that the fact that your theory is only true if the two of you are folliwing the EXACT same flight path, and you can see where the differences are.

Also, as the rest of this thread indicates, during the early parts of blackout, you still have control of the plane in AH.  Some pilots will pull hard and endure a few seconds of blackout to get out of your sights.  They will lose energy by turning tighter, and they will lose sight of you for a few seconds, so it is a trade off.  It's a trade off you would make in real life too if there was a guy shooting at you.  

Generally however, here is what I do in this situation.  I stop pulling lead, and drop into lag pursuit.  This allows me to stay out of blackout, avoid overshooting the other guy, and conserver my energy more than he is.  The more G's you pull the more energy you lose to induced drag, so by pulling less, I gain an energy advantage on him.  Now I am sitting on his six in lag pursuit with more energy... the perfect position.  Once he is done yanking his guts out on the control stick and eases off a bit due to G-loc or rapidly dropping speed, I'll just pull lead and watch 8 x .50 Cal turn his airplane into chaff.  

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[Kratzer]

From Thunderbolt - Robert Johnson:

"The Thunderbolt was diving so fast I had lost all control; a split second after the explosion I flashed through the fireball that had been an enemy airplane.  Now began the brutal task of pulling the Jug out of her compressibility dive.  Until I reached 15,000 feet the controls remained as rigid as steel imbedded in concrete.  I was frightened; the big airplane vibrated terribly, threatening to tear the wings off.  About two miles above Germany the controls grabbed the thickening air; I pulled on teh stick with all my strength.  The nose lifted, gravity clutched me, squeezed harder, harder!  At four thousand feet, level flight, then greyness, swirling mists, darker and darker, and then unconsciousness.

When I came to, the Thunderbolt had her nose pointed at the sky.  The engine howled as the heavy fighter flung herself into the blue.  I don't know how fast I dove the ship, but the severe pullout bent metal and wrinkled the wingtips."

Sounds like he kept pulling after he couldn't see...  but he went out, and if someone had been there, I reckon he would've been a sitting duck.

...and in any case, its damn exciting!

[Twist]

Good post Kratzer. Nothing wrong with it, works fine, same for everyone, use it to your advantage if you can, saved my can a few times....did I leave anything out?

[milnko]

The effects ya'll mentionin' is exactly what happens to me when my JOHNSON gets hard, typically occurs when I'm playin' with my joystick, pullin' "g's"    

Is it just me, or does this look like he's crappin his pants?  

    OH MY!

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"ASSASSINS have BIGGER Joysticks!"

<< MILENKO >>
ACES HIGH ASSASSINS Website
WB/AH ASSASSINS Website

[This message has been edited by milnko (edited 01-20-2001).]

[Fishu]

I just love those planes flying something like 400mph and then with full trims up pull the stick so that plane suddenly is coming right through you..
of course they will be blackout for while after such pull and lose some E, but they'll actually dont lose that much E if they do such quick turn, because you have to turn after them and there youll lose your E  
specially if the guy has just flown past you into another direction and accerlates already when youre still turning

[-towd_]

yes fish this is the dweeb move im talkin about a game the game move and very common today not to mention totaly unrealistic . they dont seem to lose much e at all in what must be a 20 g turn alot. seems like it would be easy to stop .

[Sparks]

Leph

That blackout calculation is happening on your FE, and would not have anything to do with the server.

Thats what I mean - the math about your turn etc is done on your own PC which must then pass the info about your position in 3d space to the server (I guess) so the info the server sees for each a/c comes from different spec PC's. My question is, when you're dealing with the relative positions of two objects in close proximity with rapidily changing dynamics, does the relative speed of the two pilots PC's cause a difference in the reliabilty of the info being sent to the server?? i.e. is a slower PC being compensated for in the software by allowing less calculations to be done and averaging?

Sparks