black out turns

[-towd_]

hello all i have a question and will pose it in as diplomatic a manner as possible.

i was flyin in a spit 5 last night and noticed that i was being out turned by mostly 47s and hogs when about co speed. and not reall fast the 300 mph and below range . i am a old time acm guy and really never hardly fully black out . it seems that alot of guys have figgured out how to time a black out turn so as to lose pursuit. it goes like this, he turns hard enough to black out you follow him and you black out then you have no idea where he is thus losing him . this dosent seem resonable seems like just adding a 4 or 5 sec return of view from total black out would fix it . only mentioning it because it happend like 5 times in 2 or so hours of playing.

any one else see this alot.

that is it.

[CRASH]

I agree, we should have a few seconds recovery time to make things a bit more realistic. It's important to point out though that real fighter pilots blacked themselves out trying to avoid an nme in their 6 an were successfull.
     If they turn hard enough to black out then they're bleeding huge e so in turn, u should simply go up, save ur e and then come back down for another pass...rinse, repeat, eventually if they dont make a mistake earlier you'll finsih'em when they run outa alt.  

[Yeager]

Yeah Towd, I have spent enough thousand or so hours doing this to get pretty good at estimating where Im going in full black out.  Thing is, it doesnt seem to help as much on my end as on yours.

HiTech should consider reducing stick input during high G pulls and pushovers.

Yeager

[StSanta]

Just some form of period of time shaking off the blackout would do wonders.

Maybe use anti stick stir code for that.

It'd really limit the "pull into blackout and lamely lose pursuer" strategy if they were immobilized somewhat after such a move  

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht

[RAM]

oh no, dont do that.

Toad can fly at 6G and not black out, so noone should black out in AH  


 

(AIGF  )

[miko2d]

 From my personal if limited experience:

 There is no loss of control while blacked out at the Gs that WWII planes allowed (under 6).
 But there is a few seconds (2-3-4? depending on length and severity) delay if completely blacked untill the vision returns.

 Much more important is that a pilot would get very tired if yanking on the stick the way we do. He may be able to do it to save his life, but he should not be able to aim well for a while after that.
 In our case a guy does a lot of stick-stirring and then reverses and puts a bullet right through teh enemy's forehead from 800 yards. In RL he would say "Barely escaped with my life, hands are shaking, need fresh pants... I am going home..."

 Why not model pilot's fatigue?

 At higher speeds Bf109 was 40 pounds per G. So to pull measly 3 Gs a pilot had to yank with 120 pounds in a narrow cockpit with bad leverage.
 No wonder that a P47 with 8-12 pounds per G and a very wide cockpit could easily outturn 109 at high speeds.
 Or rather, a pilot in P47 could outturn a pilot in 109.

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 01-18-2001).]

[Jimdandy]

I have noticed that the longer you remain  blacked out the longer it takes to recover.

[BigJoe]

It's true if in AH you pull a high G turn and hold it takes a longtime to recover from a blackout.  A "longtime" only meaning seconds but it's still long enough to make it seem like an eternity when you know a bandit is around.

[Vulcan]

Hmm, anyone else play Rainbow 6 or Rogue Spear. You know how you get the targeting reticle expanding when/after you run or get hit? What we need is something like that.

Or maybe blackouts/redouts should use the head-drop featured in pilot wounded (you know when the head drops as you blackout, slowly rises as you regain).

Either that or an intravenous tube thats hooked up to a USB Port and when you pull hard-Gs sucks the blood outta ya  

[CavemanJ]

And there goes RAM with a typical remark (smilie or no smilie)

Towd just do like crash says and setup a hi yoyo.  Or you could shift from lead pursuit to an out of plane (nose high) lag pursuit and wait on'em to bleed off all thier E.

Lag rolls work nicely too, and you can usually decrease the AOT and setup a better shot while they're blacked out.

[MiG Eater]

I see the "real life" moniker to describe a popular belief.

Blacking out only affects the pilot's visual accuity.  Having experienced it, I can assure you that the pilot is in full control of his motor functions.  You are fully conscious and aware of your movements and all feelings.  You can't see anything once gravity has drained blood and oxygen from the visual centers of the brain.  This is usually precedeeded by the loss of color vision (everthing turns gray and white), then tunnel vision (which AH fairly accurately creates) before total black out.  The black out itself is more of a dark gray haze when flying in daylight than a black curtain effect.  Sounds become a little distant and muted as well.  If the intent is to simulate real life, why should we expect or accept an artificial limitation such as reduced control movement?  On the other hand...

G-loc, or G induced loss of consciousness occurs in after an extended period or a too-rapid onset of high G's.  The pilot passes out completely, losing sense of time, motor functions, and all senses.  The body goes limp.  This is not a simple "black out."  Pull too hard for too long when fast and AH will render this condition.  With some other sims, G-loc occurs everytime you exceed a certain value.  For instance: fly at a steady 5.9 G's and everthing is fine, fly at 6.0 G's and all control is instantly lost.  That is over simplified and inaccurate.

A pilot in AH that can consistantly pull enough G to black out without G-loc'ing has mastered one part of flying this sim.  Pilots that try to follow such maneuvers have to pull harder to get enough lead for a guns shot.  More G's means a quicker and sometimes unexpected black out.  Save your E, as Crash states, and used it against the other guy once all his E is gone from pulling so hard.  An alert pilot behind you may be using this once he sees a rapid turn or pitch up.

MiG

[hblair]

If you guys would work out like Rip and I, you wouldn't even have this problem with blacking out. Physical conditioning is the answer fellas...

 
Ripsnort

 
hblair

[Duckwing6]

heheh hblair these guys seem to be huge ..

ever looked at the usual fighter jock ?

Barrel chest, bulky and .. small! (short neck too mostly)

So kindda like i'm built  

kindda explains my high G tolerance  

Btw .. IMHO the clearing effect of the grey/blackout should take longer .. but on the other hand it should take a bit longer than it does now on the onset (dunno if that comes across understandable .. )

DW6

[RAM]

Caveman do you know what does AIGF means?

FYI (For your information  )

All In Good Fun

[CptTrips]

Man, look at the knockers on Ripsnort!

 
Wab