Author Topic: The IRA end its armed campaign.  (Read 3631 times)

Offline Skydancer

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #180 on: August 02, 2005, 01:35:33 PM »
"the IRA are not the only terrorist group; only one of many"

True.

Toad I see a point to rebellion but I don't see it has to involve putting bombs in litter bins in shopping centres, or blowing up horsemen and spectators on cermonial duties, or murdering people out for a drink, or killing people attending memorial services or killing old men on their boats, or any of the other cowardly disgusting acts that have been comitted in that rebellions name! If thats what it comes to that rebellion has lost its moral legitimacy ages ago.

What makes these kind of actions any different from those of Islamist terrorists, ETA sepratists, the Red army faction, Bader Meinhoff, Tim Mcveigh's loony group ( don't know the name ) or any of the other moraly repugnant groups that kill and maim.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 01:42:01 PM by Skydancer »

Offline Hangtime

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #181 on: August 02, 2005, 01:54:45 PM »
Quote
I just can't believe anyone can be so arrogant, ignorant of the entire issue.


Arrogant? Ignorant?

How many nights till dawn have you spent loading fire trucks, driving into a NYC horror story? How many wives, sons and brothers of those lost to terror have you comforted? How many funerals did YOU attend?

Whats YOUR contribution to the war on terror, enh?

And why is it 'only americans' that are able to see both sides of the Irish equation and not get pissy?

Stuff it, Nexx. yer barkin the wrong tree.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Replicant

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #182 on: August 02, 2005, 02:03:49 PM »
I did find an interesting article on Wikipedia of all places.

"Likelihood of a United Ireland
The Good Friday agreement, which most parties (with the notable exception of the DUP) and both the British and Irish governments support, states that a majority of voters in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland would have to approve a United Ireland.

No referendums on the matter are planned in the near future as most political attention is currently focused on implementation of the Good Friday Agreement or possable changes to it.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Reunification"


The way I read this is that independant votes would have to be taken in either country.  And to quote the Progressive Democrats "Nationalism must be made legally, institutionally and economically legitimate within Northern Ireland."  In other words, the process has to be legal, hence why each country has to vote.  It's not in the constitution to decide otherwise, unless you want to ignore the voters of course.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 02:16:17 PM by Replicant »
NEXX

Offline lazs2

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #183 on: August 02, 2005, 02:18:32 PM »
well..  for me.. If I were Irish I would probly kill british soldiers.  I would do this because I would look at them as the only reason that we couldn't have a united Ireland.   I would not consider myself a terrorist unless I killed civilians.

I would demand that the british allow my entire country to vote on what kind of government it wanted..

So long as you do not allow the entire population of Irealand to vote for their destiny then you will be fighting.   I do not condone terroriom but look at those who would demand a vote and kill only soldiers and police as simply soldiers.  

Since they have no uniform you could maybe call them spys and shoot em.   That would be fine with me.  

What are the gun laws like in the independent Ireland compared to the subject Ireland?

lazs

Offline Replicant

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #184 on: August 02, 2005, 02:24:40 PM »
Laz, you still don't understand do you....  you ever heard of countries voting to decide such things?

Well, if I was a British soldier and faced with a terrorist then I'd probably shoot you too.
NEXX

Offline Skydancer

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #185 on: August 02, 2005, 02:53:55 PM »
Yes I take my hat of to you hangtime! Indeed you are one of the good guys.

However

"And why is it 'only americans' that are able to see both sides of the Irish equation and not get pissy? "

Why ist that Europeans are often able to see both sides of the situation in the ME and not get pissy?

I know about you guys getting pissy, I get it all the time in here! For trying to do just what you have suggested re the ME.

Lazs according to you you'd be quite safe shooting British soldiers as they couldn't shoot back. We Brits know nothing about guns dont ya know!

:lol

Wouldn't try it for real though if I were you. Your theory might get blown away in a hail of lead from a GPMG or SA80!:lol  :lol ;)

Offline Hangtime

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #186 on: August 02, 2005, 03:11:28 PM »
Gents.. ( and thanks, Nexx) it's time to retire the sides I think..

I'm hopin the Irish Troubles are on the mend... both sides have work to do. (actually, all five sides, Protestant, Catholic, NI, ROI and UK)

Laz, the SAS have an excellent record in NI.. in terms of getting to and eliminating (exterminating) armed insurgents. Very, VERY good.  You really don't wanna mess with 'em... good friend of mine is ex-sas, nicest guy you'd ever wanna meet. (lives here now.. likes the gun laws.. LOL!) Mention IRA and frankly your blood will run cold. Instant transformation. Seen the look before.. and the guy knows 'the business'.

And now an Irish toast...

"here's to you 'n here's to me,
here's to hoping we never disagree..
but if that should ever come to be..
then "**** you!" and here's to me!"
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Dowding

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #187 on: August 02, 2005, 06:38:35 PM »
That's just peachy, Lazs. Because, as it happens, the IRA has only ever killed police and soldiers...




3 Years Old



12 Years Old

Killed by IRA bombs in Warrington in 1993. Where's the heroism in that? Where's the honour there? And you have the gall to call them freedom fighters, Hangtime?

At best the attitudes expressed by some Americans in this thread can be laid right alongside the view that "Sept.11 was terrible, but the US has made some bad foreign policy judgements".

At worst, tacit justification and tacit acceptance.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Jackal1

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #188 on: August 02, 2005, 06:42:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
Point of order!

" never mentioned the US. It was others who chose to pursue that line. When you chose to go down that route I responded.

 


  You responded to what you were fishing for to begin with.
Thinly veiled, but good try.

Quote
Not yank bashing, though admittedly it was US Norad supporters on the news that got me riled in the first place


  Bingo! You found another way to work it in.

Quote
That was what this thread was supposed to be about


  What color was the turnip truck? :}

  There has been forms of terorrism for as long as history has been recorded and there will be forms of it until the end of these times I`m sure. Controlling it to a large degree is the key and as much as can be expexted.
  There has also been revolts since the beginning of recorded history. Oranges/apples.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Hangtime

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #189 on: August 02, 2005, 07:03:19 PM »
Deleted

Rule 4- Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users and HTC. Flaming or abusing users is not tolerated.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 07:24:33 PM by MP7 »
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Skydancer

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #190 on: August 02, 2005, 07:29:20 PM »
Jackal1 I'd like to record here and now that you seem to be  simply fishing to stir up the pond yourself . Take my views as you will. I'm sure there are those who will agree with you and likewise those who don't. Basicaly I am stating that I abhor terrorists and those who fund and back them. I would hope you might agree with that. One day you will read the entire post and not just the bits you think will make your case for labeling me as a yank basher, I live in hope.

Frankly I can't be bothered to argue with you about it anymore! :rolleyes:

Offline Hangtime

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #191 on: August 02, 2005, 08:09:46 PM »
Quote
Killed by IRA bombs in Warrington in 1993. Where's the heroism in that? Where's the honour there? And you have the gall to call them freedom fighters, Hangtime?


You have the gall to impune that your goverments hands are clean in Ireland?

In the north of Ireland 3646 people have lost their lives as a result of the conflict. 363 people have died directly as a result of actions perpetrated by the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the British Army - 75 of whom were children. The overwhelming majority of those killed posed absolutely no threat whatsoever - they were unarmed when killed. Almost 200 were civilians and a proportionately high number of the overall deaths have occurred in highly controversial and disputed circumstances where there is evidence of a shoot to kill policy. 89% of those killed directly by the State were from the nationalist / republican community.  

There are approximately 90 killings where the perpetrators remain unidentified. Civilians have died in situations where involvement has been denied by the British Government despite the evidence indicating otherwise. Other civilians have also been killed by off duty members of the State's armed groups.

Some 15,000 Irish Republicans went to prison during the course of the conflict serving a total of 100,000 years - in relation to killings by the State only 4 serving members of the British Army went to prison serving a total of 15 years and 3 months . All were subsequently released significantly early into their sentences and reinstated back into their regiments, two were promoted. No Royal Ulster Constabulary members were ever sentenced to imprisonment.

Additionally, Loyalist paramilitaries have claimed the lives of 1051 people. Many of these killings occurring in circumstances where there exists clear and irrefutable evidence of collusion by the Royal Ulster Constabulary / British Army and Loyalist death squads.

The combined actions of the British State and Loyalist forces are responsible for 1414 deaths.

BBC News.. The Stevens Report

Don't wave your bloodstained hands at me, Dowding.

Next, the Mau Mau uprising. After that, Burma. Then we can get into Malayisa. And Palestine. Then India. And there's plenty more in Africa. And that's just the last 50 or so years. How far back you wanna draw the line, oh Holier than Thou Dowding? Tell me, save me some research time.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Jackal1

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #192 on: August 02, 2005, 09:57:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
One day you will read the entire post and not just the bits you think will make your case for labeling me as a yank basher
 

 Not only read the entire post, I read the entire thread. It still comes out the same. They are your words in one of many, many threads and posts that you always work in some anti-US sentiment and attempt to blame my country for all of your perceived woes.. They are not my words in my posts, but yours in your posts.
  I didn`t label you anything on this board, but you have sure done a fine job of it and like I posted earlier in the thread, you are not even slick about. Read the responses to the majority of your posts, as said earlier, and see if a light might eventualy go off somewhere.
  You`re not cutting it in the "slipping this one in" division.
  According to you everything from stomach aches to constipation in your country , is in some way,  directly the blame of the U.S.
 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 10:00:08 PM by Jackal1 »
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Excel1

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #193 on: August 02, 2005, 10:06:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Some 15,000 Irish Republicans went to prison during the course of the conflict serving a total of 100,000 years - in relation to killings by the State only 4 serving members of the British Army went to prison serving a total of 15 years and 3 months . All were subsequently released significantly early into their sentences and reinstated back into their regiments, two were promoted. No Royal Ulster Constabulary members were ever sentenced to imprisonment.


Under the British policy of internment, many of the the 15,000  were jailed without trial on just the suspicon that they were associated with the IRA.

The ironic thing is that if it hadn't been for the anti catholic policy of the British government, the provisional IRA would never have gained the support that it did. Catholic Irish in NI had their backs to the wall and no where else to turn for help. This fact seems to be lost on some British when they try too apportion the blame of the IRA's more excessive actions on others.

Excel

Offline Replicant

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The IRA end its armed campaign.
« Reply #194 on: August 03, 2005, 12:57:12 AM »
I'm retiring from this post but here's some more promising news:

Military move heralds end of era - as I've mentioned many times, it's time to look away from the past and look to the future.  There will still be some British military left in Northern Ireland but they'll be in a support role to the Police (reduction from 20,000 to 5,000 in two years).  Do remember that the British government have had very little to do with making decisions in Ireland for quite awhile; the decisions have been coming from both NI and the ROI (they have their parliaments but people with old ways; time for people with new ways - this is the step required).

Only when everyone is at peace, with absolutely no threat of reprisals no matter what religion you have, will I see a chance of a referendum.  Optimism!  And how I wish I was down my local Irish pub now sinking a Guinness or 6!  See also.

Peace Out!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 01:10:12 AM by Replicant »
NEXX