Author Topic: Spoke to Pyro re Spits (Read 5965 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #30 on:** August 02, 2005, 08:11:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
Wouldn't a Seafire L MkIII with a Merlin 55M @ 1.585 hp would surpass a Vc @ 16lbs boost? Are they doing an F or L MK III?

I guess either would do as long as the ToD gods and scenarios CMs remember that it saw service no earlier then June (June '42 for the F MKIII, Merlin 55 1,470 hp) / July (July '42 for the L MKIII, Merlin 55M 1.585 hp).

True. F4F-4 should be used as a Martlet for setups earlier than that.

And who knows, maybe we'll get a SeaHurri sometime.

Squire · « **Reply #31 on:** August 02, 2005, 08:54:01 PM »

Later than that, 1st Seafire III was @ November 1943, I beleive with 894 Sqn. I don't think any saw combat untill 1944.

Seafire IIc is a 1942 bird, Merlin 46. Served in Torch landings @Nov 42.

Seafire L.IIc is 1943 (transitional type, with a 32 engine, 3 stack exhaust, later ones with 6, but no folding wings). Sometimes mistaken for a Seafire III (looks very close).

Seafire III is 1944, 6 stack exhaust, and folding wings. The definitive type for the rest of the war. Seafire F.III (Merlin 55) was superseded by the Seafire L.III (Merlin 55M) they wanted a version for low alt air superiority, mainly vs the Japanese.

The Seafire L.III all but replaced the F.III within a year according to my book. For info.

Seafire XV was embarked, but did not see action (same fate as the F8F Bearcat).

Kweassa · « **Reply #32 on:** August 02, 2005, 09:12:50 PM »

The list seems good!

Thanks for the info Kev and Pyro.

Kweassa · « **Reply #33 on:** August 02, 2005, 09:38:22 PM »

How about a clever workaround..

...and do an early Spitfire MkV with 12lbs boost, and just retain the current Seafire MkII instead of a MkIII, using 16lbs, which could dub for the Spitfire MkV with 16lbs in 42 and 43 in scenarios and such?

IMO a MkIII Seafire would totally put an end to the rest of the CV planes as fighters, and limit the F6F and F4U to jabo duties totally.

Already the Seafire MkII is dominating in usage above the Hellcat and the Corsair.. as a CV plane, which I've even posted a separate thread about it. (although, with kind info from the participants of that thread, I did withdraw my initial impressions that the Seafire was a bad choice)

Squire · « **Reply #34 on:** August 02, 2005, 09:46:31 PM »

Ya, Im just interested in TOD ect, not what the MA ramifications are. I guess that will have to be worked out.

Perk it MA would be a simple solution, to avoid over use, just like the Hog-C.

1K3 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 02, 2005, 11:09:39 PM »

btw, spit 8 peformance

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit8.html

NOTES: +18 boost will still rule in climb department, +25 is an overkill. Even the spit 8/9/16 with +25 will climb FASTER than MiG-15bis jet fighter (heh i didnt bother comparing it to F-86)...

monteini · « **Reply #36 on:** August 02, 2005, 11:24:10 PM »

If that is actually what it did then that is the way it should be , dont not do a plane that acctually served because it is good.

Elyeh · « **Reply #37 on:** August 03, 2005, 12:41:42 AM »

Out of the list which would be free and which would be perked?

Wotan · « **Reply #38 on:** August 03, 2005, 01:25:57 AM »

Only the Spit XIV (its already perked)...

Quote

Seafire IIc is a 1942 bird, Merlin 46. Served in Torch landings @Nov 42.

Yeah, you are right (first time for you

)...

Quote

Seafire IIc June 1942.

The Seafire the Spitfire that went to Sea,

David Brown

Bad memory I guess....

They may end up in the unique situation where by the Seafire Mk III is substituted in for a Spit Vc @ 16 lbs in July '42... But unable to use it as a sub for the Seafire II...

Call it the the Seafire LBO '42 (land based only)...

Wotan · « **Reply #39 on:** August 03, 2005, 01:31:25 AM »

Here is a question...

Does AH actually need Seafire? (probably should be another thread...)

It seems to me after thinking about it that the Spit Vb 12lbs and Spit Vc 16lbs could just as well sub for a Seafire II/III as the other way around...

I know, what about the hooks..?

Wilbus · « **Reply #40 on:** August 03, 2005, 04:03:10 AM »

Sounds like a nice list to me, looking forward to flying them!

Wotan:

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
Looks like a decent list. However, as I pointed out previously having a single Spit V (in this case a b @12lbs max) isn't 'fair' to the RAF fans.

Currently there is no LW plane to match match that time frame. There is no E-7 (DB601N), there's no F-2 or FW 190A-2.

If the Spit Vb that AH currently has was brought up to a true Spit Vc, and keeps the 16lbs boost, I think that would be more fair. Then if in the future (or even now) a Spit Vb @ 12 lbs could be added.

Just my 2 cents...

Well, who says that there will be no 109 E7, F2 or 190 A1/A2 etc etc in the future? HTC Have to start somewhere don't they? Might aswell start with the spits lineup and let the rest follow.

Squire · « **Reply #41 on:** August 03, 2005, 10:10:49 AM »

"Does AH actually need Seafire?"

In my Navy you would be taken into chains for saying that, and shipped off to the Colonies...

...but in any case, when the Hurricane series gets "redone" at some point, im hoping for a Sea Hurricane which saw a lot of service with the RN. Also we have the F4F, F6F and F4U, which all saw action with the RN.

But, there is a Seafire already in the Seafire IIc we have, and I dont see Pyro getting rid of it, so it comes down to which is the most usefull varient. I would still vote for Seafire III, based on usage in various theaters.

The Spit V thing is tricky. *If* Pyro is going to add some 1941 LW fighters, then the Spit Vb makes some sense, if not, as you have already pointed out, its a bit of a mismatch vs a 1943 Fw 190A-5 and a 1942 rated 109F-4. Its not the end of the world, because you still have a Spit F.IX there you can use to butress up the Spit Vb I suppose, but a Spit Vc would still see a lot of use in other areas.

The Spit Vb and Vc are so close in 3d model its really a shame not to get both versions to plug all the holes. We may yet I guess, but I think we have to be realistic in that every varient isnt going to be modelled for everybody's favorites. Seeing the list he is thinking about I wont look a gift horse in the mouth.

Kev367th · « **Reply #42 on:** August 03, 2005, 11:41:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
How about a clever workaround..

...and do an early Spitfire MkV with 12lbs boost, and just retain the current Seafire MkII instead of a MkIII, using 16lbs, which could dub for the Spitfire MkV with 16lbs in 42 and 43 in scenarios and such?

IMO a MkIII Seafire would totally put an end to the rest of the CV planes as fighters, and limit the F6F and F4U to jabo duties totally.

Already the Seafire MkII is dominating in usage above the Hellcat and the Corsair.. as a CV plane, which I've even posted a separate thread about it. (although, with kind info from the participants of that thread, I did withdraw my initial impressions that the Seafire was a bad choice)

Because Kweassa there were around 300 Mk IIc produced, but there were over 1200 Mk III produced. The lineup is a REPRESENTATIVE selection of the MOST produced Mks with big enough performance differences.

Kev367th · « **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2005, 11:54:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Somebody in one of these forum threads somewhere mentioned that the Seafire III is more like a spit9 than a spit5. Is this accurate? Where would it fit, performance wise? Between Vc and F.IX?

Seafire L III still closer to a Spit V than a IX, it used the same motor as the late LF Vc (Merlin 55M).
Thats why it can sub for the Vc in scenarios.

Before people continue with the 'Oh not another Spit' whines, remember, the Spitfire WAS the RAF mainstay fighter from 1940 all the way to the end of WWII.

Look at it this way, with the changes -

1940 Spit I
1941 Spit Vb
1942 Spit F IX
1943 Spit LF VIII
1944 Spit LF XVI
1945 Spit F XIV

as opposed to current
1939/early 1940 Spit 1
1942 Spit V
1942 Spit IX
1944 Spit XIV

Notice the difference?

SuperDud · « **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2005, 12:01:59 PM »

Good to hear Kev/Pyro, you've made this spit dweeb very happy:p