Spoke to Pyro re Spits

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Karnak
I sure hope we get those.  If so I would feel the Spitfire line was complete enough for AH purposes to not add anymore.  That would be as complete a lineup as any in AH and as complete as we can realistically hope for.

Yup, I would agree.
Only possible change owuld be the Spit XVI to 25lbs boost. Would still have liked the XVI as a bubbletop just to make it look totally different.
Was the bubbletop speed affected?
Dan pop in a bubbletop profile per favore,

1K3 - Would prefer 25lbs non-perked: No reason to perk it, it is still not what you would call a speed demon compared to the top 4. In fact as I stated earlier, its two historical opponents (190/109) are still both faster even with the XVI using 150 grade fuel. Only BIG difference is the increase in climb rate, OK it make the climb outstanding, but don't all the mostly used aircraft in the MA have one outstanding feature.
G10 has great climb - It's not perked.
D9 has good level speed and long WEP - It's not perked.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by 1K3
When Spit LF 16 is served, would you like it with...

1. +18 lbs boost, not perked

or

2. (historically) +25 boost, lightly perked (base price 5 or 8)

Personally I would take the +25lbs lightly perked.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Karnak
Personally I would take the +25lbs lightly perked.

Thats the one thing I have never understood -
Get a good performing Spit we have to perk it, yet other good performers go untouched ??????????

What is it? Spit considered just so damn good it has to be perked?

If the Spit VIII is at 18lbs, the Spit XVI must be at 25lbs.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Yup, I would agree.
Only possible change owuld be the Spit XVI to 25lbs boost. Would still have liked the XVI as a bubbletop just to make it look totally different.
Was the bubbletop speed affected?
Dan pop in a bubbletop profile per favore,

1K3 - Would prefer 25lbs non-perked: No reason to perk it, it is still not what you would call a speed demon compared to the top 4. In fact as I stated earlier, its two historical opponents (190/109) are still both faster even with the XVI using 150 grade fuel. Only BIG difference is the increase in climb rate, OK it make the climb outstanding, but don't all the mostly used aircraft in the MA have one outstanding feature.
G10 has great climb - It's not perked.
D9 has good level speed and long WEP - It's not perked.

Length on a Spit XIV is 32'8"
Length on a Spit XVI with the tall tail is 31'4".  

I slapped that together fast so the Spit XIV might be a bit off scale to the others but it definately is a longer beast.

Low back Spit XVI profile for ya Kev

Dan/CorkyJr

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Kev367th
1K3 - Would prefer 25lbs non-perked: No reason to perk it, it is still not what you would call a speed demon compared to the top 4. In fact as I stated earlier, its two historical opponents (190/109) are still both faster even with the XVI using 150 grade fuel. Only BIG difference is the increase in climb rate, OK it make the climb outstanding, but don't all the mostly used aircraft in the MA have one outstanding feature.
G10 has great climb - It's not perked.
D9 has good level speed and long WEP - It's not perked.

Consider the difference between 4500fpm on the G10 (which is about what our spit14 has now, I think 4500-ish is the highest any plane in AH at the moment can climb) and 5700fpm listed for the +25 Spit16. I call that a BIG difference. Couple that with one of the tightest turning aircraft in the game, with a pair of the strongest guns in the game (hispanos) add to that a top speed capable of chasing down a 190D (perhaps in a shallow dive, but close enough) and I think that makes it one of the fastest planes in the game, that can turn the tightest circles, that can rocket into space without even straining, and can kill anything with 1-2 hits.

I sure as heck HOPE it gets a perk!

Spit14 is dangerous enough. Plus by the time doras and G10s showed up there were P47s and P51s to chase them down, so it's not like you're going to totally be limitd only to spits. Also consider that by the time Doras and G10s were around, so were typhoons and tempests. Both far faster than the most common spits.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Thats the one thing I have never understood -
Get a good performing Spit we have to perk it, yet other good performers go untouched ??????????

What is it? Spit considered just so damn good it has to be perked?

If the Spit VIII is at 18lbs, the Spit XVI must be at 25lbs.

Only Spit that should be perked somewhat if at all is the XIV.

Gotta let the Spit fans have one that can compete with the speed burners down low to some degree.  LF XVIe would be it.

Dan/CorkyJr

[Furball]

Originally posted by Krusty
Consider the difference between 4500fpm on the G10 (which is about what our spit14 has now, I think 4500-ish is the highest any plane in AH at the moment can climb) and 5700fpm listed for the +25 Spit16. I call that a BIG difference. Couple that with one of the tightest turning aircraft in the game, with a pair of the strongest guns in the game (hispanos) add to that a top speed capable of chasing down a 190D (perhaps in a shallow dive, but close enough) and I think that makes it one of the fastest planes in the game, that can turn the tightest circles, that can rocket into space without even straining, and can kill anything with 1-2 hits.

I sure as heck HOPE it gets a perk!
 

my god...

i love it already.

perk it to stop the noobs using it and ruining it!

[straffo]

Originally posted by Krusty
Also consider that by the time Doras and G10s were around, so were typhoons and tempests.  

Typhoon were present looooooooooooooooonnnnggggggg gg before the Gay10 or the Dorka.

[Wilbus]

(Is it just me or is repeatedly refering to the XIV and XVI in the same paragraph really annoying?)

Agree.

I will check info on XVI again. Squire, no I don't get it mixed up.

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Furball
my god...

i love it already.

perk it to stop the noobs using it and ruining it!

Which, of course, means more easy kills for the already good pilots. If HTC would just restrict all the lower rank pilots to the Mark I, AH would be paradise....for some.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Krusty
Consider the difference between 4500fpm on the G10 (which is about what our spit14 has now, I think 4500-ish is the highest any plane in AH at the moment can climb) and 5700fpm listed for the +25 Spit16. I call that a BIG difference. Couple that with one of the tightest turning aircraft in the game, with a pair of the strongest guns in the game (hispanos) add to that a top speed capable of chasing down a 190D (perhaps in a shallow dive, but close enough) and I think that makes it one of the fastest planes in the game, that can turn the tightest circles, that can rocket into space without even straining, and can kill anything with 1-2 hits.

I sure as heck HOPE it gets a perk!

Spit14 is dangerous enough. Plus by the time doras and G10s showed up there were P47s and P51s to chase them down, so it's not like you're going to totally be limitd only to spits. Also consider that by the time Doras and G10s were around, so were typhoons and tempests. Both far faster than the most common spits.

So the Spit fans get penalized because their bird might be better then a LW bird in some fashion?  Does this mean unperked LW birds have to be better by default?

The irony is the Spit guys here are saying they understand the Spit Vb in AH is too much of a beast with the boost it has now and that it should be scaled back.

I have yet to hear any of them say anything about changing the 109s or 190s.  There is an understanding that the LW guys have their favorite birds too.  Give em a G14 or K4, I don't care.   They ought to feel like they've got the birds that fit for what best represents the 109s.

 What the Spit guys have been asking for is a representative line up of the Spits from 39-45 that they can fly without having to deal with the perks.

Right now the 42-43 Spit LFVc and FIX is all they have and that leaves out a large section of Spits in particular the LF birds whether it be IX, VIII or XVI.
And now you'd suggest perking the XVI.  What's the point then?

Better yet, unperk em all.  I could care less if everyone else is in 262s or 163s.  I'm not going to fly em.

Since my first AW days I wished for an early 38 model and a clipped LF Spit.  That's what I fly, that's where my interest lies.  

LOL well I guess if nothing else, I'll never have to worry about the 38G getting perked.

Dan/CorkyJr

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Thats the one thing I have never understood -
Get a good performing Spit we have to perk it, yet other good performers go untouched ??????????

His question was a binary and I answered it within the given rules of the question.


Now, it so happens that I agree with Krusty that a 5,700fpm climb rate and the acceleration that implies would be an absolute monster.  It would probably need to be perked, which is why Pyro wants to do it at +18lbs boost instead.


Dan,

Well, you're P-38G habit would certainly fund any Spit 16 habit I'd think.

That said, we'll see it free and at +18lbs boost initially.

[Squire]

I want a T-Shirt that says "Spitfire LF XVI was too good for Aces High II".

Hehe, I like that "we could have given it to you but its just too damn good".

Just j/k.

[Kev367th]

Lol
HELP I have a Spit XVI chasing my D9 and hes catching me, I better climb,,,,oooppps. I better turn,,,,ooppps.

Whats up LWeebles, scared of a free Spit that can actaully compete with your 190s?

GIVE US 25lbs BOOST!!!!

Of course the 'hope they perk it' crap. Let me have my unperked D9 speed demon but perk a slower Spit XVI...grow some nads. In fact perk EVERY plane that stands the remotest chance of catching a 190, happy now?

As Dan stated I have come to believe the Spit fans are actually more understanding than thier LW counterparts. We realised the current Spit V is too much and as we suggested it is getting scaled back. Dont see much of that type of reasoning coming from the other side.
We wanted, suggested, and got a representative Spit lineup (almost - bar the 18/25lbs thing), no limited run Mks, no exotic Spits, just a good solid 1940-45 Spit selection.
In fact all the guys who participated in the couple of Spit lineup threads can give themselves a well deserved pat on the back, Pyro looked at our suggestions and agreed with them.

In fact Pyro said it would be 'introduced' at 18bls probably, BUT would consider about upping it to 25lbs later. In fact by limiting it to 18lbs he is effectively negating the 'representative' lineup aspect. Yes they did originally run 18lbs boost, much more common after May 1944 it was 25lbs.
But in reality anything is better than the current selection.

Karnak - I wouldn't completely agree that a good climb rate = awesome accelleration. Will try and dig out some stats.

Squire - I want one "Supermarine + Merlin 66 + Hispano + 25lbs = LW poopoo pants"

[edit] Thinking about the whole 18/25lbs boost thing - If he doesnt give us 25lbs boost he is effectively giving us a 1943 LF IX.

[Krusty]

Not to put a damper on the party, but I don't think all the credit with the +12 SpitVb is due to the "spit fans".. Going by the constant agravation on the CT forum and the ban of the spitv in almost all setups with the 109F4, there were a lot of non-spit drivers that have been calling for the toning-down of the spitV for a long long long time. It's not just spit drivers being benevolent, you know

LW pilots "made do" with flight models that HTC (I think Pyro, specifically) admitted were off-base, and not accurate. And "made do" with these for years, in fact. A few vocal minorities gripe and moan constantly, but most people find the LW rides competently modeled, and still adequate to get kills in. So it doesn't do to lump LW pilots vs Spit pilots, as it's an unfair comparison as to who's getting what done with what planeset. Keep an open mind and don't discount outside opinions. Just because a 190D is fast doesn't mean it should be perked, because while it's fast it can't turn for chit, and in the time it takes to turn 180 every spit in the game can turn 720 and do it all inside the 190's turning radius (lol). Just because the 190D is fast doesn't mean it can fight any better, nor does it make it a monster. It is chased down by ponies, it is outflown by every USAAF plane except for the P40s, and the only thing it has going is speed (which most newbies in the MA use to run away from fights, I hear). Historically it had speed. Historically the spits did not. So why you want to chase one down is beyond me, when there are better rides to do it in.

A high-end spit does everything well. Who gives a crap if it's not as fast as a 190D? The Dora was an interceptor, not a turn fighter. Speed was its main defense. When you force it to fight it's dogmeat, easily. Which doesn't stop people from using it to run for the hills, but it doesn't in any way mean it should be perked either, just because it's faster than a spitfire.