Disgusted

[Edbert1]

If the vulch is in full swing (as mentioned with CAPers fighting each other for table scraps), then any enemies that try to up are going to fail. I 'think" I know which event is being described here, last night we had a nice furball going on that the rooks slowly got the upper hand on, to the point of the enemy base being completely CAPed. The town was down, the goon was on the way, and with the goon less than 5 minutes out some hero showed up in a bomber and plastered the FHs. At that point there was NO FURBALL, just a very heavy CAP. Can't even call it a vulch, there was one newb who would try to up every 45 seconds or so and usually got whacked before he hit 20mph, by the dozen or so friendlies.

It might have been I who disgusted you, I said something like "why did you have to do that?". To which someone said "no FHs no fighters", to which I said "nonody was getting airborne here, if you want to prevent them from upping head to the next base in line, THAT'S where they're coming from". I also mentioned that since we had GVs in the town and a goon on the way we might need the FHs for the next hop. Someone said they'd be up by the time we captured the base. Well, two minutes later the base was ours and all FHs along our coast were down, our drive into enemy territory was stopped.

Now, I could care less about taking a base or having the "Offensive" stopped. But for those who enjoy the land grab I wish more power to them, I am glad that they can enjoy their game as well. I just have to question the strategerie of killing FHs at a base where no enemies are upping (and one that is about to become ours) and ingoring the FHs at bases where they are rolling from. If the war-winning and base-capture/land-grab is your thing fine, but think about what your next target will be and make sure you don't pork your current target so hard that you cannot use it when you get it.

I don't know for sure if we are speaking of the same event or not, if not I am sorry for hijacking the whine/biatch thread. Dropping the FHs at a furball is another topic entirely from the one I am describing.

By the way, the FHs were down over 10 minutes after the base was ours and thirty minutes later our offensive got back underway.

[Masherbrum]

Wow, you have it easy FiLtH, I was called many colorful names when I "retired from de-acking fields".   You see, I would go to a field de-ack, Odd and the rest rest of the CAF that were on would get the hangers, I would auger and roll a Goon.  CAF would capture a field.  Rinse, repeat.  

But as I noticed, as did my squaddies, others would "come along" to just vulch.   So we'd move to a different front and do the same thing.  Finally, I'd had enough as did my squaddies, you'll notice Odd is a lot more calm today becuase of it.  

BTW Rookland, if I see a hanger up, and I have ord., that ord is going on it (if it comes to capturing or not capturing it).  Go ahead and get pissed, I'll bring more till you guys zip it.  

Karaya

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Edbert
If the vulch is in full swing (as mentioned with CAPers fighting each other for table scraps), then any enemies that try to up are going to fail. I 'think" I know which event is being described here, last night we had a nice furball going on that the rooks slowly got the upper hand on, to the point of the enemy base being completely CAPed. The town was down, the goon was on the way, and with the goon less than 5 minutes out some hero showed up in a bomber and plastered the FHs. At that point there was NO FURBALL, just a very heavy CAP. Can't even call it a vulch, there was one newb who would try to up every 45 seconds or so and usually got whacked before he hit 20mph, by the dozen or so friendlies.

It might have been I who disgusted you, I said something like "why did you have to do that?". To which someone said "no FHs no fighters", to which I said "nonody was getting airborne here, if you want to prevent them from upping head to the next base in line, THAT'S where they're coming from". I also mentioned that since we had GVs in the town and a goon on the way we might need the FHs for the next hop. Someone said they'd be up by the time we captured the base. Well, two minutes later the base was ours and all FHs along our coast were down, our drive into enemy territory was stopped.

Now, I could care less about taking a base or having the "Offensive" stopped. But for those who enjoy the land grab I wish more power to them, I am glad that they can enjoy their game as well. I just have to question the strategerie of killing FHs at a base where no enemies are upping (and one that is about to become ours) and ingoring the FHs at bases where they are rolling from. If the war-winning and base-capture/land-grab is your thing fine, but think about what your next target will be and make sure you don't pork your current target so hard that you cannot use it when you get it.

I don't know for sure if we are speaking of the same event or not, if not I am sorry for hijacking the whine/biatch thread. Dropping the FHs at a furball is another topic entirely from the one I am describing.

By the way, the FHs were down over 10 minutes after the base was ours and thirty minutes later our offensive got back underway.

Great post Edbert.

That's the thing really, the guys in this for the strategy don't have much.  Taking down the FHs at a base that is completely capped while the town is still up is quite like extending 6k then turning around for a HO run.  It's pointless, tactless, and a buzz kill.

And anyone that thinks the entire reason people get upset about the FHs going down is because all we want to do is vulch is mistaken.  We want to have something  to shoot, period.  If the enemy is willing to keep upping in numbers there, great, maybe a few will get off the ground, then a few more, and challenge us.  What we don't want is to be jumped from enemies at the next base over who were previously perfectly content to take their chances at the capped base, but now have no choice but to up further away and climb above us.

Seriously, if you want to "help" by taking out the FHs, take them out at the surrounding bases, not the one where you already have fighter support that's working toward a CAP...  Or on a field that you want to launch from against the next one in an effort to "win teh war".  

Filth hope you don't take this as directed against you, I see what you are saying about bad attitudes, but come on...

On a related note, I've never heard anyone whine about the fight being stopped because "oh man, why'd you losers go and capture this field!?!?!" (unless of course it was center island).

[EagleEyes]

Know how you feel bud, happens to me and the 31st all the time in bish land.  Though it is fun to furball, i like to take bases.  Onew of the only things i like about furballing is when there is a giant furball, there is less planes and resources to defend other bases.  <> FiLtH!

[FiLtH]

Edbert it was'nt you.

  I dont know if I can get some of you to understand where Im coming from on this, but here goes.


  Gooning is not fun.

   If no one on our team did it, we'd never capture a map.

   You have to goon once in awhile to understand that. For a guy to willingly grab a goon, he has to be either new, in between deciding what he wants to do for the night, or he trusts the others he's flying with to have the town flat, and the enemy planes gone. It doesnt take many trips of getting shot down to say "Screw you guys..Im goin haime."

     I can't count the times where someone has said "Leave up the FH..we've got it CAPPED!"..only to see them slowly get whittled down as the endless enemy re-ups, and those left retire with their scalps 2 minutes before the goon arrives. Seriously..you have to goon awhile to see this is very common. The fighter guys rtb with kills, the bombers wasted a couple trips bombing a base that wont get captured, and the goon just plain wasted his time. Its aggravating.

    When I attack a base...I go for the town first. Town bldgs are down alot longer than the hangers are. Until the town is flat, hitting the hangers is pointless. However after the town is flat, and a goon is otw, if the enemy is upping in strength, the hangers are the next target. Including the VH. Not to protect vulchers, but to keep gvs from heading to town.

   The fighters role is to gain air superiority "over" the target. This means at the start of the attack, allowing the bombers through to drop the town. If they can't keep the enemy down, then the bombers will help them. But their job doesnt stop at that base. Many should be otw to the next base to intercept planes. Other than leaving hangers up and losing control, the second reason goons die is because everyone ended up 50ft over the base vulching, while the enemy comes in at 10k from the adjacent base, free to control the skies.

   Hangers are down for such a short period of time, that it effects matters very little. It does make that small difference though allowing more of our guys to arrive on station to maintain a cap, or for the goon to make it in. Strats should never be an offensive target. They stay down too long. Thats only for defensive fighting trying to slow an enemy down.

   I suggest some of you guys try gooning for a couple weeks from time to time, and give your honest opinion on leaving FHs up when there isnt enough of a horde to completely cap that field.

PS Vudak..I hear it a few times a week. It depends who Im flying around I think.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Charge
What is the point of killing any hangars in a forward base? I understand destroying the VH as the flaks can give you serious trouble if they have numbers.

Just level the city and drop in the goons and you have a functional base. It is no point of capturing a base that is bombed to pieces IMO.

It is more clever to bomb FHs down from a second line base as these will give trouble to the low vulchers and BHs from distant bases where the bombers normally start from.

-C+

You don't do a lot of base captures, do you?  I mean, from what I am reading here, you obviously aren't in it for the capture the flag game, are you?

'Cause you really don't seem to make a lot of sense.  Just sayin'...

[Vudak]

Originally posted by FiLtH


The fighters role is to gain air superiority "over" the target. This means at the start of the attack, allowing the bombers through to drop the town. If they can't keep the enemy down, then the bombers will help them. But their job doesnt stop at that base. Many should be otw to the next base to intercept planes. Other than leaving hangers up and losing control, the second reason goons die is because everyone ended up 50ft over the base vulching, while the enemy comes in at 10k from the adjacent base, free to control the skies.

True, fighters should be headed off to the next field, but when you check the map and see no significant darbar at the next field, while the current one is an inferno, you're going to stay for the inferno.

   Hangers are down for such a short period of time, that it effects matters very little.

15 minutes is more than adequate time for everyone else to pick a new base, up, climb, and intercept the bomber/goon/whatever you like.  It's far easier to get the goon if you can fly over everyone instead of through them.

   I suggest some of you guys try gooning for a couple weeks from time to time, and give your honest opinion on leaving FHs up when there isnt enough of a horde to completely cap that field.

If there are not enough guys to cap a field, take them down, of course.  What my complaint is when we do have a steady supply of reinforcements and a good strength to compete with anything they can up.

I've been at bases where there are only 6-7 guys (including bomber, goon, etc) working on and see what you're saying as far as people leaving to land.  That can be detrimental.  But I've also been at bases where there have been 30 people coming and going and the FHs are still taken down.  The base isn't taken for over four hours, but the FH's are still taken down repeatedly.

That is what gets me going, not the 6-7 guys.

You had to be on two nights ago at A8 to see what I am talking about, I guess.

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by rshubert
You don't do a lot of base captures, do you?  I mean, from what I am reading here, you obviously aren't in it for the capture the flag game, are you?

'Cause you really don't seem to make a lot of sense.  Just sayin'...

No offense Shubie, REALLY, but can you elaborate on what is wrong with that strategy? I sounds reasonable to me, particularly with the second line part, maybe the rear bases is a bit much though.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Vudak
True, fighters should be headed off to the next field, but when you check the map and see no significant darbar at the next field, while the current one is an inferno, you're going to stay for the inferno.



15 minutes is more than adequate time for everyone else to pick a new base, up, climb, and intercept the bomber/goon/whatever you like.  It's far easier to get the goon if you can fly over everyone instead of through them.

 

You just put your foot in your mouth.  You see, the "base capture" guys need you to go over and cap the other field, but you won't, since you prefer clubbing baby seals at the base under attack.  YOU say that 15 min is plenty of time for the defenders to up at a different field, and you are correct.  Frankly, the guys who mess up my missions most often come from another base.  They're the smart ones.

But you can't do both things, can you?  Cap two fields?  There aren't enough guys to do that.  So, we make it impossible for suiciders to up from the base under attack, with the intention of 'spoiling' our capture.

It's really pretty simple.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Edbert
No offense Shubie, REALLY, but can you elaborate on what is wrong with that strategy? I sounds reasonable to me, particularly with the second line part, maybe the rear bases is a bit much though.

This part right here:

"True, fighters should be headed off to the next field, but when you check the map and see no significant darbar at the next field, while the current one is an inferno, you're going to stay for the inferno. "

It's short sighted.  "dude" can up from the next field, swing in and kill the goon, and ruin our capture.  All because the l33t fiter pilit cannot be bothered to do something that requires thinking ahead.

He stays at the base under attack, clubbing baby seals ( a bk copyright, i think) while the base capture falls apart.

[Edbert1]

Your text I quoted was a reply to a different post (not Vudak's). The poster suggested killing FHs at neighboring fields as opposed to the one where capture was imminent, it is a sound strategy to me, and I was really interested in hearing what was wrong with it.

Also, what's up with the BK shot, I mean where did THAT come from?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Wow, you have it easy FiLtH, I was called many colorful names when I "retired from de-acking fields".   You see, I would go to a field de-ack, Odd and the rest rest of the CAF that were on would get the hangers, I would auger and roll a Goon.  CAF would capture a field.  Rinse, repeat.  

But as I noticed, as did my squaddies, others would "come along" to just vulch.   So we'd move to a different front and do the same thing.  Finally, I'd had enough as did my squaddies, you'll notice Odd is a lot more calm today becuase of it.  

BTW Rookland, if I see a hanger up, and I have ord., that ord is going on it (if it comes to capturing or not capturing it).  Go ahead and get pissed, I'll bring more till you guys zip it.  

Karaya

Silly question:  You stoped deacking fields and your friends killing the FHs because other people came with to vulch planes upping from the downed FH?  And then some people called you names because you retired from killing ack and augering?

[Sketch]

Originally posted by FiLtH
Tonight a couple Rooks moaned about the FHs going down, while others had been trying to capture it.

     I had been there 2 flights earlier in a fighter..and we werent getting it done. The FHs were left up and the enemy just kept upping.

     If you dont want the FHs down either go to the next base in line and cap that to take the heat off the one thats trying to be captured, goto another area altogether, goto the DA, or be happy with what you got and play along with the rest of us, playing the game according to its design.

     I dont play this game to appease you. I know you dont try to appease me..so from now on if you havent got anything good to say..say nothing at all.

    Dont rely on vulching for all your kills. Im all done bombing for Rookland for awhile. Getting hooked up with the crew I was around tonight left a bad taste in my mouth.

   Look out now!  Im coming to steal your kills.  :/

(Normally dont post when angry...this is why)

I am with you on this on Filth... I was there in an IL-2's and 110's trying to keep GV's & Buildings down.  All I heard when the hangers were dropped was whining about them going down and now they can't vulch and all that crap.... I was there for almost 2 hours dinking around because the Rooks wouldn't flatten the place and capture it.  Finally they did after two sets of bombers came in and flattened the place thank god!  And I shouldn't have left a bad tast in your mouth...I shower!!

[Sketch]

Originally posted by dedalos
Silly question:  You stoped deacking fields and your friends killing the FHs because other people came with to vulch planes upping from the downed FH?  And then some people called you names because you retired from killing ack and augering?

The fact is you go to bases to capture them... not to sit and vulch for 2 hours, isn't the point of AH to win earch war, move to another map and do it again.  Besides, if you de-ack a field, it is kind of easier to keep a cap on the filed, don't you think.  If a squad comes in to take it, don't whine because the hangers go flat and you lose all those "kills" you worked so hard to get.... The CAF has done thier fair share of flattening bases so it is an easy capture for the Rooks. The CAF works as a Squad and we organize it, that is why we are successful when we fly together and other squads as well.  Now take your pink purse, go home and make some pie....

[Grits]

There is a difference between dropping the FH's at a base that is close to capture, and a set of buffs coming in at 35k and taking them out at a base where a good fight is coming from. If I'm with some guys working for a capture, I'll be the first one to say "take down the FH as long as the VH goes first". It's a smart thing to do.

I'll also be one of the first ones to let out a string of profanity (at home to myself, not over VOX or in text) when some looser drops the FH at a base that is part of a good furball.