Author Topic: 38-sortie (Read 1023 times)

jetb123 · « **on:** August 04, 2005, 06:38:32 AM »

Was a sortie i had last night, most funniest thing was i had hit that jug about 2 minutes earlier catching it on fire, and it still flew man it was like a zeke! Also it was pinging me from 1k out lol i was getting very mad, Finnaly decided it was time for me to finish him. Its a fun film but my gunnery at end was horrible i cant believe i missed that much, Also i did land this i encourted 2 more planes without ammo and made both augur then rtbed. hehe

>Film<

jetb123 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2005, 06:41:53 AM »

Update: In this one dont know how it was done had a lala turn with me for a good 4 minutes on the deck. I was really baffled by this.. and watch

>film<

Clip121 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2005, 06:42:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by jetb123
Update: In this one dont know how it was done had a lala turn with me for a good 4 minutes on the deck. I was really baffled by this.. and watch >film<

Well jet, look who you were fighting bro - SaDs is a heck of a stick! Was a good fight there tho, could see the lala was getting around on ya.

jetb123 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2005, 07:16:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Clip121
Well jet, look who you were fighting bro - SaDs is a heck of a stick! Was a good fight there tho, could see the lala was getting around on ya.

Yeah sads is good but i was hoping that torque would mess him up but I think he was turing inside the torque.

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2005, 08:10:17 PM »

I really like you SaDs fight because it was very clever, what SaDs did.

You notice that he kept his speed above 150 at all times? It dropped to 140 at point point, but he averated 170 and only dropped to 150. By keeping his speed up he was able to do 2 things that kept you from killing him

1 - he was able to stay above you, consistently. He only came down to make a slashing attack, and then pulled back up afterwards

2 - while keeping his speed up and staying above you, you were pulling hard, wallowing around 130mph or less, and for the most part unable to pull your nose up to get a bead on him when he was in front of you for any short period of time.

Very smart.. I like that film a lot. Very educational.

Happy1 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2005, 03:23:36 AM »

very interesting film jetb123, but those lufberry circles are something I hate with a passion, especially when the EA had alti-
tude over u.... how to break out ? Need speed ... but I'm just an
amateur in a P38 & unable to offer advice

Perhaps p38 pros like AKAK, Murdr or Pellik have a solution??

Cheers,

Happy1

jetb123 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2005, 03:56:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I really like you SaDs fight because it was very clever, what SaDs did.

You notice that he kept his speed above 150 at all times? It dropped to 140 at point point, but he averated 170 and only dropped to 150. By keeping his speed up he was able to do 2 things that kept you from killing him

1 - he was able to stay above you, consistently. He only came down to make a slashing attack, and then pulled back up afterwards

2 - while keeping his speed up and staying above you, you were pulling hard, wallowing around 130mph or less, and for the most part unable to pull your nose up to get a bead on him when he was in front of you for any short period of time.

Very smart.. I like that film a lot. Very educational.

Yeah i was noticing this, but I couldnt really do nothing to counter it i was low on E. All i was relying on was His torque killing him, but sads is a great LA driver, and kept his speed high. Turning out the winner.

bustr · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2005, 11:42:25 AM »

Littel secret on that fight. The last 2 passes I had no alerons or flaps. It was all throttl, rudder and elevators. I couldn't have gotten away from if I wanted to. I just refused to auger. I hoped to make you auger first.....

Krusty · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2005, 01:13:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by jetb123
Yeah i was noticing this, but I couldnt really do nothing to counter it i was low on E. All i was relying on was His torque killing him, but sads is a great LA driver, and kept his speed high. Turning out the winner.

I'm no p38 expert, but maybe I can offer a suggestion.. Looking at it now, I can say what I'd have done in your place, but I don't know how I would have fared "in the now" as it was happening.

Were I you, I'd have nosed down to the wavetops (lower than you were), retracted flaps, hit WEP and only for a second or two extended (not enough for the LA to get on my tail) then tried a turn in the other direction and/or a barrel roll using flaps to get over the top (the speeds would still be pretty slow). Depending on how much speed could be gained from a few seconds' extending, I migh thave tried a tight loop (might be tricky even for a 38 at those speeds).

Widewing · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2005, 01:22:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by jetb123
Yeah i was noticing this, but I couldnt really do nothing to counter it i was low on E. All i was relying on was His torque killing him, but sads is a great LA driver, and kept his speed high. Turning out the winner.

Basically, SaDs was turning at a faster turn rate while you were turning a tighter radius. This gives him the edge because he has speed enough to have other options, such as staying above your plane of maneuver.

What I suggest is that you gently widen your radius and increase your speed to the point where you can get the nose up for a shot.

You had one opportunity for a snap shot, but unfortunately, you missed.

You need to avoid using the P-38's flaps more than absolutely required, because when you get that slow you hand the other guy the advantage.

Remember our little tussle in the TA? You had a P-38L and I had the G model. You couldn't gain an advantage in the vertical. Why? Because I always carried more speed going into the vertical. When the L did get slow, the G owns it.

When fighting a maneuvering La-7 (a rarity, I admit), I prefer to assume a lag pursuit, conserving energy until I can pinch in for a killing shot (the classic P-38 cloverleaf). However, if you remain continuously just above stall speed, you will never be able to pinch in.

Avoid Lufberry circles... This is best done with a wingman assisting who can exploit the enemie's lack of speed.

Just remember, it's 10 times harder to get someone off your six than it is to keep them from getting there in the first place.

My regards,

Widewing

jetb123 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2005, 02:07:25 PM »

Yeah i just now saw that snapshot that i had, but at that time. All i had in my mind was im a 38J with full flaps down, no torque I can outturn this guy.. Proven wrong lol

Schutt · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2005, 09:03:16 AM »

As far as i know the la turns better to the right, so you were turning to his favorite direction. When you get in the trouble with the la better take it round left.

As others have mentioned you want the speed at wich you do the most turn degrees per second, which is way faster than you were. I think you should have tried to get up to 150mph, around that.

I am not totally sure but i think the fuel indicator showed 75percent of fuel. Thats pretty heavy for a p38, your better of having 50 percent or less in the tank. Of course cant blow off fuel when engaging, but maybe try to take off with less fuel and see how it lasts.

I see your working a lot for your flying, filming analysing and posting. Try to check your fuel state now and then and see if you could do with less fuel in the fights somehow, check how much fuel you have left when you get shot down and when you land each time. When you get shot down with 50 percent fuel you had 50 percent more than you needed, generally speaking.

Look at 1:21 , i think that is the moment where you do the mistake. You have a fair position there and are pulling behind him, but instead of pulling around in a light climb you roll over. The rolling cost you turnrate and position, i think pulling higher and behind him there would have been good. Shortly after that you try to pull for your snapshot instead of setting up behind him. With the shot you loose some angle and energy.

I am certainly no P38 expert, but i think those two points are intresting, together with the other stuff mentioned.

Now lets take a look at the turning performance from kweassa:

La-7 (0.05)
ShVAK
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 18 seconds (153mph), 196.0m
- 17 seconds (127mph), 153.6m
B-20
- 18 seconds (162mph), 207.5m
- 17 seconds (151mph), 182.7m
- 17 seconds (126mph), 152.4m

P-38L (0.05)
- 21 seconds (184mph), 275.0m
- 19 seconds (169mph), 228.5m
- 19 seconds (119mph), 160.9m

Of course that is theoretical data, but it shows that p38L goes around best at 169 or 119 mph, still 2 secs slower for a full circle than the la7. That means the la7 would go around you in like 10 circles, 170 seconds or close to 3 minutes. You did the circling with it for 4 minutes you did way better than expected by the data.

jetb123 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2005, 10:14:11 AM »

It was a P-38J model.

Magoo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2005, 11:42:06 AM »

Quote

Just remember, it's 10 times harder to get someone off your six than it is to keep them from getting there in the first place.

Agreed, but as the saying goes (slightly adapted) :

"A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all."

In the MA you sometimes need to show your six just to get the bad guys to engage.

Magoo

DamnedRen · « **Reply #14 on:** August 08, 2005, 11:54:19 AM »

LOL, if I don't have 4-6 enemy on my 6 all the time it means I'm in Rookland looking up at the 30K alt, sputniks

_____________
Ren
The Damned