Author Topic: What about new 109's (Read 6112 times)

justin_g · « **on:** August 05, 2005, 08:59:05 PM »

All these Spitfire threads, but isn't the 109 getting a makeover too?

What additions and/or changes are needed in the 109 lineup?

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2005, 12:23:12 AM »

Pyro said there will be changes and the Bf109G-10 will no longer be in the lineup.

What I'd guess is:

Bf109E-4
Bf109F-4
Bf109G-2
Bf109G-6
Bf109G-14
Bf109K-4

What I'd like is:

Bf109E-4
Bf109E-7 or Bf109F-2
Bf109F-4
Bf109G-2
Bf109G-6
Bf109G-14
Bf109G-6/AS or Bf109G-14/AS or Bf109G-10
Bf109K-4

I don't know enough about Bf109s to comment on boost levels other than the K-4 at 1.98ata would apparently be very nice.

Kev367th · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2005, 01:05:19 AM »

First list looks good (keeping in mind TOD), can't see 8 getting done, would hope the K4 is perked (mildly).

MiloMorai · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2005, 02:57:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
First list looks good (keeping in mind TOD), can't see 8 getting done, would hope the K4 is perked (mildly).

Only if it is boosted to 1.98ata. The majority of K-4s used 1.80 ata boost. 1.98 did not appear til very late (last 2-3 months of the war), and that with 4 Gruppen who could only manage to get somewhat less than 100 a/c flyable. Even then it is questionable how many really could use 1.98ata.

Kev367th · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2005, 04:15:50 AM »

Irrespective of perked or not, it shouldn't be using 1.98 in that case, it would hardly be a 'representative' K-4.

Gotta keep thinking TOD not just the MA.

justin_g · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2005, 04:58:54 AM »

Hmm, lets see...

Bf109E-4 - DB 601A - 1.3ata, 1100ps = 570kph@4.5km
Bf109F-4 - DB 601E - limited boost: 1.3ata, 1200ps = 640kph@6km
Bf109G-2 - DB 605A - limited boost: 1.3ata, 1310ps = 630kph@6.6km

Bf109G-6 - DB 605A - full boost: 1.42ata, 1475ps = 635kph@6.6km

Bf109G-14 - DB 605AM - MW50: 1.75ata, 1800ps = 665kph@5km
Bf109K-4 - DB 605DB - MW50: 1.8ata, 1850ps = 710kph@7.5km

The issues I can see are:

1. G-2 has to cover alot of time until the G-6 becomes useable because full boost(1.42ata) wasn't authorised until early '44 iirc.

2. No high-altitude model until the K-4. Either need G-14/AS or G-10 with a plain DB 605D.

Kev367th · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:23:54 AM »

Always going to be a problem having some gaps.
Spits have same probs, 12 months in some cases, its just a question of getting along with the bare minimum.
Trying to spread the gaps evenly.

eg a Vc and LF IX would have been nice, just overkill.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:25:26 AM »

service introduction dates

F-2 - Oct 1940
F-4 - June 1941
G-2 - May 1942
G-4 - Nov 1942
G-6 - Feb 1943
G-6/AS - early 1944
G-14 - July 1944
G-10 - Oct 1944
K-4 - Oct 1944

Kev367th · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:26:30 AM »

Lol you actually think youll get 9?
Hard enough getting 6, maybe only 5 Spits, might be time to start thinking realistically.
Pyro monitored out Spit lineup thread, and we came up with an acceptable bare minimum of 6, he agrees with 5 and is thinking about the last one.

K-4 and G-14 I can see getting in, do'nt know enough about the 1943 and earlier stuff, apart from the E4 (missing off your list so that makes 10 lol)

MiloMorai · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:39:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
Lol you actually think youll get 9?
Hard enough getting 6, maybe only 5 Spits, might be time to start thinking realistically.
Pyro monitored out Spit lineup thread, and we came up with an acceptable bare minimum of 6, he agrees with 5 and is thinking about the last one.

K-4 and G-14 I can see getting in, do'nt know enough about the 1943 and earlier stuff, apart from the E4 (missing off your list so that makes 10 lol)

Kev was not asking for 9. People can lobby for the ones they think would be the most appropriate.

No E as the book I took the dates from is for the F to K.

Kev367th · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:43:32 AM »

Ah OK sorry, so out of the 10 including an E-4 what would be your 'bare' minimum choice? Guessing the LW will get around 6 also.

Quick question
k4 using 1.98ata - pushes it up to 2000HP?

Still think Karnak list has the best chance, with a 1.8ata K-4

MiloMorai · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2005, 06:04:36 AM »

F-2 - Oct 1940 no, as the E-4 covers
F-4 - June 1941
G-2 - May 1942
G-4 - Nov 1942 no, too close to the G-6
G-6 - Feb 1943
G-6/AS - early 1944
G-14 - July 1944 no, G-6/AS covers
G-10 - Oct 1944 no as the K-4 covers
K-4 - Oct 1944 1.80ata

Thinks that spreads the dates out to cover.

K-4 - yes as long as C3 and MW50 was used with 1.98

Kev367th · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2005, 06:09:18 AM »

Pretty well close to Karnaks, apart from the extra G6 and missing the G-14.

Think it's getting close to a concensus for you guys.

Still say because of the rarity of 1.98ata K-4's and bearing in mind TOD, it won't happen.
Definately see the 1.8ata K-4 though (as per your list).

MiloMorai · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2005, 06:13:04 AM »

Only reason went with the G-6/AS is that there is a large time gap between the G-6 and G-14. The /AS fills this hole.

Kev367th · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2005, 06:15:34 AM »

I see, like I said apart from the E4 dont know a lot about 109's 1943 and earlier.

Would guess the common 5 will get in +1 of the others.

Still betting on a very mild perk for the K-4 (5 or something around there).
I know the P47N - Well up to now unless a country is ENY'ed about every P47 you run across is an 'N', so who knows, Pyro considered perking it on introduction.