The Fw 190A-5 fallout

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Krusty
The 190s were changed. The way they stall was greatly enhanced, so they are no longer like in AH1. They flew horribly until they were redone. After being graphically redone they also received a FM redo, which made them the powerhouse that they are today. That is, before they were enhanced, they sucked and weren't popular. Now I see a lot of them.

No flight modells were changed for AH2 for any plane.

What was change was the overall flight modell of AH and that is why some planes perfom much different and some planes perform just a little bit different. Atleast that is the answer I've been given.

190 perform different but that is not due to the fact that the 190 FM has been changed. It hasn't.

As for A8/A9 the A9 used later quite a bit more powerfull engines than the A8. A9 was a low level monster. Using 2200 HP engines (BMW TS or TH).

Why would they make two identical planes and name one A8 and one A9?

That said, the A9 played a small part of WW2 and should not really be at the top of the list. Then again, I would imagine it would be easy to add. Same as A8 but with a bubble canopy and a bigger engine.

[MANDO]

There were also A8s using these engines and, as far as I remember, F8s were the first to receive the TS engines. A9s had also more armour and Ta152 style vertical stab.

[Crumpp]

Hey Guys,

Here is the weights for the FW901A3 through FW190A6 air superiority fighter version:

FW 190A3

Leergewicht = 2900 kg

Rüstgewicht = 3141

Type II (outboard MGFF's mounted) Fluggewicht = 3978 kg

FW-190A5

Leergewicht = 2960 kg

Rüstgewicht = 3312kg

Fluggewicht = 4088 kg

FW190A6

Leergewicht = 3000 kg

Rüstgewicht = 3365 kg

Fluggewicht = 4189 kg


The FW-190A5 gains 110 Kg over the FW-190A3 with no gain in power.

The FW-190A6 gains 101 Kg (about the same) but gains power as well.  It gains an effective weight increase over the FW-190A3 of 211 Kg's (465lbs) with about a 100 hp power gain.

To put it in perspective and not start a "comparision" thread we can examine the gains of another aircraft whose design remained similar but gained weight and power as well.  The Spitfire works well and does not have the reputation for "excessive weight creep" that the 190 does either.

Spitfire Mk V (Merlin 45) weighs between 6450lbs - 6525lbs.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitv.html

Spitfire Mk IX weights between 7,234lbs - 7.480lbs.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit9.html

Horspower varies among the Merlin powered Spits but comparing the weight and power gains one can see they are comparible to the FW-190A's with the 190 gaining less weight and equal power over it's lifespan.



All the best,

Crumpp

[Knegel]

Hi,

i fly mainly FW190A8 in AH and i dont found a different between the AH1 and AH2 FM, i only have the feeling that after one patch the MG151/20 provide a better hitprobability(more similar to the Hispano), if this observation is right, this would explain why specialy the 190A8  seems to perform much better.

Maybe my skill with the MG151/20 did grow up, but in AH1 i had to use the 30mm heatseaker to be successfull with the A8, now the 4 x 20mm and even 2 x 20mm do the job!

The A9 was a absolut common plane from mid 44 onward. It was much more powerfull than the A8(look to the JG301/302 lost list).


Greetings,

[1K3]

"190A-9 absolute common from mid 44 onward"


190A-8/F-8 made up more than half of the late war 190 family lineup and was more common from mid 44 onward. The A-8/F-8 production was @ ~1,500+ while A-9 production was only @ 700+ (the same as the D-9s)

[Knegel]

Hi,

is it true that the production of 190´s in 1944/45 (mainly 190A8,F-8, A9 and D9´s) was only around 3000??

Anyway, if the A9 got produced same often like the D9 its worth to include it, both was main fighters in 1944/45.

Btw, they should make a different between the early D9´s and the late one!

Greetings

[Knegel]

Hi again!

bump to the question of number of produced 190A9´s(and A8/D9´s) in late 44 +45.

Here are some sources which give a hint that the A9 was a common fighter from late 44 onward.
Next to this i have some books, where it get mentioned regular in the lostlists.


http://www.jagdgeschwader301.de/code/geschw3.htm

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bijg26.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg52.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg2.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biiijg2.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg3.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bivjg3.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg4.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biijg6.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bijg6.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg11.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bijg11.html

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bivjg54.html

According to this lists all this units had the A9 already in November/Dezember 44, some already in Septermber/October.

I dont found any sources regarding 'Flugzeugbestand 1945', but i guess the number of A9´s in 1945 did grow up in relation to the A8.

So i would consider the A9 a common late war plane!

Greetings,  Knegel

[Wilbus]

VERY Nice Knegel, thanks for the links!

I knew the A9 saw combat but didn't know that it was active in such numbers. Very nice, this is one plane I've been longing for for a long time in AH but never really expected. Don't know if we'll get it but would be nice. A Perk A8

[Crumpp]

I knew the A9 saw combat but didn't know that it was active in such numbers.

Yep,  Been saying this for a while now.  

Wait until some of the discoveries we have made at White 1 become public about the engines.

All the best,

Crumpp

[1K3]

are you "rewriting" history?

[Krusty]

My whole point wasn't that the A9 didn't see service, or that it wasn't around (it did both) but what's the point if it's only [EDIT: Hypothetically] 5 mph faster and flies exactly the same as the A-8? That's just nitpicking, folks!

"Why not include it if the D9 had as many planes built as the A9? Add it because they had the same numbers"

That doesn't work. The reason to add the D9 is that it is 3 classes, a leapfrog, and a longjump ahead of the A8 in performance. The A8 and the D9 aren't even in the same league of performance. One totally blows away the other, and here's a hint: the better one isn't the A8. That's why the dora is there. Who cares if the A9 was made in approximately the same numbers as the dora was? That doesn't mean it's worth adding. The performance is all but identical to what we already have.

New name, but nearly identical. Just fly the A8 and have done with!

My $0.03 (this one's worth more)

[Crumpp]

My whole point wasn't that the A9 didn't see service, or that it wasn't around (it did both) but what's the point if it's only [EDIT: Hypothetically] 5 mph faster and flies exactly the same as the A-8? That's just nitpicking, folks!

It is quite a bit faster, especially with the BMW801TS-2 motor when equipped with Erhöhte Notleistung.  This set up outperforms the F8F-1 Bearcat that saw service in the closing days of WWII.  Before the Grumman fans rise up in anger, that is not the more common post war F8F-2.

The BMW801TS-1 is significantly faster at certain altitudes than the BMW801D2.

Both the BMW801D2 and the BMW801TS-1 developed the exact same horsepower at 1.65ata.  The BMW801TS-1 used 1.65ata for "Start u Notleistung" for 5 minutes from sea level to max altitude.  The BMW801D2 could only use 1.65ata at the changeover at first gear supercharger FTH and above.  Both motors are 2050PS at this rating.  The FW-190A8 is faster though at higher altitudes.

IMHO an 801S1 equipped FW190A9 would be a great match for a Spitfire Mk IX Merlin 66 (+25) or a Spitfire Mk VIII down low.

Especially since the power egg was lighter than some of BMW801D2 set ups.

All the best,

Crumpp

[Krusty]

Crumpp, this may be asking a lot, but guesstimate if necesary:

Can you give us a speed arc for the A8 superimposed over the A9? A comparison?

[Crumpp]

Here you go, enjoy!

This is not the fastest FW190A8.  Some of the FW-190A's, F's and G's went 580kph on the deck using C3-Einspritzung but only under 1 KM in altitude.

All the best,

Crumpp

[Krusty]

Looks like it's only about 25mph or so (~40kmh) faster. But that's something. Looks best between 2km and 3km alt (6k and 9k, common AH altitudes). I'm also interested in seeing the ta152 speed charts How many 152C's saw action?