Traffic Jam near China

[Fury]

 http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/04/01/china.usnavy/index.html

A U.S. Navy patrol aircraft has been forced to make an emergency landing in China after what officials describe as a "minor" mid-air collision with a Chinese fighter jet.

Sounds like they need icons in real life.

Fury

[Sandman_SBM]

Well... if he hit him, he was close enough even without icons.  

I think this is the Chinese F-8:

 

[funked]

Sounds like the Chinese AF need to learn how to fly.  Morons.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-01-2001).]

[Maverick]

Think intentional downing. Think innocuous way to get your hands on a surveillance plane. Think it might be a non accident. Since it happened over international waters it might be a clever way to get the plane and crew on their turn without the nasty messy method of shooting it.


Mav

[Toad]

Take a pretty ballsy guy to intentionally mid-air Mav.

Not that there has been enough information released to determine who did what to whom anyway. We probably never will the the straight scoops anyway.

Things have a way of getting out of hand fast in deals like that. Somebody means to give somebody a little tap with the wingtip (idiot idea anyway) and the guy getting tapped picks that moment to jink...suddenly it's not a little tap anymore.

I suspect this was just a mid-air. I doubt ANYONE wants to mix aluminum at altitude and speed.

I've has Sweeds nestled between my engine pods on both wings of the RC-135 for 5 minutes at a time. Remarkably steady and remarkably smooth and very entertaining...but you can bet I was damn careful not to make any sudden moves too! They really did a neat "dismount" too..I gave them a 9.9.

It was cool...but they had everyone's attention.

Just my .02.

[Dowding]

Sweeds, Toad? Do you mean Swedes? Vegetable or person?  

BTW, I really can't see how anyone would intentionally ram another plane. Unless they happen to be British, however, and the only thing between a V2 and a suburb of London is your Tempest.

That must have taken a huge pair of big brassy ones.  

[Fury]

 http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/04/02/china.aircollision.04/index.html
 http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/04/01/china.us.willy/index.html

Wonder how hot this will get?

It's funny that a prop driven plane can intentionally crash into a jet.  At least that's what China says.  I wonder how close those jets needed to be to trail the prop plane?

Of course each side will blame the other, so we'll never be able to figure which one is the true story.

Hope China enjoys the free gifts they get from the plane.  Does anyone really think that no Chinese officials will board the plane?

It's also pretty strange they have not allowed any contact with the crew.

Fury

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 04-02-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

Fury, not strange at all, they're communists.

Call me paranoid, but I'm sure all 24 crew members are getting thoroughly relieved of and and all information of what type of mission they were doing.

[Toad]

Dear Dowding,

Thank you for correcting my misspelling of "Swedes" in my previous post. As you know this is just more "proof positive" that I am nothing but an uneducated, illiterate, USA-centric Yank that knows nothing of the rest of the world.

I will try to do better.

BTW, did you ever notice that by simply transposing the last "d" and "e" when quickly typing "Swedes" you can turn it into "Sweeds"?

Of course, that’s not what I did. I am indeed "an uneducated, illiterate, USA-centric Yank that knows nothing of the rest of the world."

Thanks ever so for correcting me!


[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-02-2001).]

[Dowding]

Lighten up Toad, I was just pulling your chain.

You seriously think I was trying to 'get' at you for spelling?!

For Christ's sake.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 04-02-2001).]

[Mighty1]

Well I'm sure it was not an intentional collision.

When I was in the USAF in the early `80's I was stationed at Seymour Johnson AFB in Goldsboro, NC and we had an incident that involved one of our F4's and a private tour AC.

It seems that our F4's were sent out to chase off the private plane because it was getting to close to our air space and one of the F4 pilots decided to buzz the private AC just for the fun of it. Well it was a little foggy and the F4 pilot misjudged the distance and ran into the private AC killing all 6 people onboard. The F4 made it back to base with a tore up wing.

[MiG Eater]

The mid-air was probably a result of the Chinese pilot getting sloppy while playing a game of "chicken" with the EP-3.  A well known and well-used tactic is to coax a large airplane to fly in another direction.  This is done by flying (very) close on a parallel course then by turning sharply in front of their windscreen.  Not only does it scare the flight crew, it forces the intercepted airplane to fly through the fighter's wake and jetwash.  The Chinese pilot probably turned too soon, clip the wing of the EP-3 and the out of control J-8 impacted the EP-3's nose.  Given the weight of the equipment and large number of people on board (22 crewmen is a LOT in a P-3), it is unlikely that it could have done much to either attempt to hit, much less avoid an agile fighter.   Many Tu-95 Bear's were "coaxed" away from their course by intercepting F-15's and F-16's off the Atlantic coast in a similar manner.  

The Russians did this and damaged a P-3 several years ago in what was likely the first air-air sighting of an Su-27.  I believe the P-3 was Norwegian and it suffered the loss of one of its props.  The P-3 crew snapped some great photos moments before the impact.  You could count the skin panels in the Su-27 it was so close.  If I recall, the Su-27 suffered the loss of one of its vertical stabilizers but I don't remember its fate.

MiG

[Toad]

 http://www.gsansom.demon.co.uk/vfaero/lists/shoots.htm


About as good a list as I've see so far but some inaccuracies.

Found this on the Norway incident:
 http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/1716/sqn.htm

Orions of 333 Squadron still operates regularly over international waters north of the Kola peninsula. the Russian navy and naval air force also operate regularly in this same area on local training exercises. Visual contact between Norwegian P-3´s and Russian ships and aircraft is not uncommon: similar to the state existing with the previous Russian and Norwegian units nowadays can be described as more relaxed than at the height of the cold war, although relations between Norwegian P-3´s and Soviet units in earlier years were hardly ever tense, with the exception of one dramatic incident: in September 1987 a Norwegian P-3 collided with a Soviet Su27 Flanker after some irresponsible maneuvers by the Flanker pilot. Fortunately the P-3 was able to make a safe landing and nobody got hurt.



[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-02-2001).]

[tofri]

No doubt, there is a new President in the States!

After almost 3 month of George W. Bush we had several air raids in Iraq, the rejection of an important international treaty and now a critical situation in the far east.

I'm sure in the end of his time as President he got at least one more war than his father.

What we got is the mediocre son of an average
former President.

We are looking into a bright new future  

[Toad]

Tofri,

So a Chinese fighter running into a US EP-3 Recon airplane in International Airspace is the new President's fault?