Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?

[ghi]

Originally posted by rod367th




Just wanmt low rank so i can turn cv when friend s or guys like zazan try to land on a cv.

[/B]

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Stone
Well this explains why people fly the way they do in the MA.

I could not understand, what is so fun about vulching & camping.

But it is all RANK motivated. The kill / time even explains the HO'ing.

If only landed kills would count for K/D K/T K/S, and the perk earned would be used to multiply to the score, things would maybe be very different ?

Vulch and die = no effect on rank.
HO and die = no effect on rank.
Land 6 kills in a ME262 = low effect on rank as score is multiplyed with the given sortie perk points earned.
Land 2 kills in a F4F = high effect on rank as score is multiplyed with the given sortie perk points earned.

I've always been an advocate of using the same multipliers that effect perk point calculations for points as well. I posted this idea during the ENY debate, I don't think HT was receptive to it, I'd have to look up the old thread for his exact response. Get kills in harder planes, more points. Get kills while outnumbered, more points. This would give incentive for the presumably better players who play for Fighter Rank to fly for the underdog and fly early war planes more often, improving both variety and gameplay balance. The current ENY system doesn't really do that as the better players can fly a wide variety of planes across the entire ENY value spectrum with comparable efficiency.

I would also love to see a more descriminating system as you described where vulches and HO's were not rewarded. But, honestly I doubt that will be possible. There is no programming infrastructure in place to differentiate the 'How" of a kill just the 'Who' and the 'How Many'. I am not a programmer, but I am fairly certain the coding that would be required would outweigh any gameplay benefit derived, but what do I know, maybe it would be rather easy. We can dream.

Zazen

[StarOfAfrica2]

I like your idea Zazen, although I too am not too sure how "doable" it is.  The only problem I see with it, is that most of the time the longer someone flys here the less they worry about ranks.  There are exceptions, but thats the general rule.  So then that would tend to nullify the intended benefits.  

For my part, most of the Perk planes hold no interest anyway.  The F4U-4 probably would, but I'm comfortable in the -1 anyway.  I dont care for the Spit XIV.  The Tempest might draw my attention, but again I am fairly comfortable with the Typhoon so why bother?  I already fly the older versions of most planes.  Not for points or for challenge even.  They are just more fun.  

[Furball]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
The Tempest might draw my attention, but again I am fairly comfortable with the Typhoon so why bother?  I already fly the older versions of most planes.  Not for points or for challenge even.  They are just more fun.  

Tempest is a completely different animal to the Typhoon, you should fly it a few times and see what you think.

[Stone]

Originally posted by Zazen13

I would also love to see a more descriminating system as you described where vulches and HO's were not rewarded. But, honestly I doubt that will be possible. There is no programming infrastructure in place to differentiate the 'How" of a kill just the 'Who' and the 'How Many'.
Zazen

If a non landed kill does not effect the rank / score at all, then the HO "tactic" would most of the time not score at all. No need to know how the kill came I think.

Also if the ack would be 10 times tougher than now, vulchers would probobly not live long, and not score either. And even if the ack is not changed, people would maybe elect to attack high cons, instead of zooming past the high once, to vulch a field.


I have heard again and again the "I dont care for rank". Still I see "top players" that has been around for years, vulching. Maybe it is a skill full and motivating thing, and I just dont get ?
Still I think its more of a RANK ting.

[rod367th]

vulching is part of base taking. most guys near top don't just go looking for vulches. They do want advantage in fights tho. Like everyone should. No 1 vulch in my fighter score. now have some in attack score but none in fighterscore.  you don't need alot of kills to be in top rank hell I only have 39 kills in fighter score  but only 2 deaths.  and i'm 3rd ranked. I'm one of thos who enjoy killing gvs   and bombing, so i get alot of score hitting strat or bases.  but it doesn't take very much to have rank.





  when we had rank contest top 10 in tour each month same guys made top ten as in top 10 now. just takes min effort to lower rank. but like i said before  rank means nothing. Because best sticks don't go for rank. you don't see dmdcoach lev shane and many other great fighter pilots go for rank. they would think probally driving gv to a strat is nonsense or bombing a strat.  but to each his own

[Howitzer]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
From the Help file
Death Multipliers

• Landed 1.0
• Discoed .25
• Bailed .5
• Ditched .75
• Captured .4
• Killed .25
• Crashed .25

I think landing is now 1.25, not sure about the rest. [/B]

I think this is in reference to perk points and not the "Points" category under the fighter score.  I think that is what HT and others are referring to....

N00b!!!  

[hitech]

the 1.25 for landing is a perk bounes.

The list of the different multiplyiers is what effects the points cat. of score.

HiTech

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Stone
Well this explains why people fly the way they do in the MA.

I could not understand, what is so fun about vulching & camping.

But it is all RANK motivated. The kill / time even explains the HO'ing.

If only landed kills would count for K/D K/T K/S, and the perk earned would be used to multiply to the score, things would maybe be very different ?

Vulch and die = no effect on rank.
HO and die = no effect on rank.
Land 6 kills in a ME262 = low effect on rank as score is multiplyed with the given sortie perk points earned.
Land 2 kills in a F4F = high effect on rank as score is multiplyed with the given sortie perk points earned.

you got that a bit messed up actually...

the whole f4f thing is only for PERKS which are completely different than RANK. perks are perks, points in rank are not even in the same gene pool they are so unrelated

so in the above mentioned scenarios, "landing the 2 kills in the f4f" might hurt your fighter rank, but will get you a bunch of perks.


i think that is what confuses newer players. perks and points are to completely different things. i hear on vox and see on text "i dont have enough points for a 262" or "i got 5 points for that sortie".

this may be artifically making them think they have a high rank, and may complicate their understanding of the whole system.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
I like your idea Zazen, although I too am not too sure how "doable" it is.  The only problem I see with it, is that most of the time the longer someone flys here the less they worry about ranks.  There are exceptions, but thats the general rule.  So then that would tend to nullify the intended benefits.  

 

We are just talking Fighter Rank here. Take a close look at the Top 100 Fighters each camp. While I am not saying every great fighter pilot is on that list, a very high percentage of them are. Some may not be consciously 'trying' to attain a high Fighter Rank, but alot are. The simple fact is to be on that list you have to be one or more of the 3 following things:

1) A very good pilot with great aim and SA.
2) A very dedicated vulcher.
3) An above average pilot with good aim and an incredible amount of disposable free-time.

No matter how you slice it, it would be of great benefit to an under-manned team to have a Top 100 Fighter Pilot switch to their team. The hard truth is, one very great pilot can out-kill 10 very poor ones by a factor of 10 to 1, all other factors being equal. Which brings me to my next point.

If your Top 100 Fighter pilot chooses not to go to the under-manned team, he may instead choose to fly an early war plane to rack up more points. This will in effect lessen his relative effectiveness which again would help with balance. The premise being a poor pilot in an La7 may be able to be as effective as a good one in a P40b. Either way this would aid in overall balancing if alot of people started doing it. The ENY limiter attempts to do this on a global scale, whereas this would selectively target upper echelon players specifically with a positive motivator not a restrictive one.

Zazen

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Zazen13
If your Top 100 Fighter pilot chooses not to go to the under-manned team, he may instead choose to fly an early war plane to rack up more points.  

i know you know the difference between perks and fighter points, but usind that word in this situation i think only creates more confusion for some poeple. flying a p40 will not get you more fighter rank points, and you have stated above so.

just want to show where those words (perks & points) being interchanged messes up ALOT of people. i have seen it, and actually had to correct old squaddies on their understanding of it.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Mustaine
i know you know the difference between perks and fighter points, but usind that word in this situation i think only creates more confusion for some poeple. flying a p40 will not get you more fighter rank points, and you have stated above so.

just want to show where those words (perks & points) being interchanged messes up ALOT of people. i have seen it, and actually had to correct old squaddies on their understanding of it.

Actually, that post pertains to the idea that we should apply the same modifiers that go into calculating perks to points. So, I am using the correct term. I realize as it is now plane type and numbers imbalance do not effect Fighter Rank points, but I am arguing that they should.

If you have the endurance and willpower try reading all of my posts above and you will understand where the flow of the conversation led to this idea which I actually brought up over a year ago before the ENY thing was ever implimented.


Zazen

[Mustaine]

i know that, and i did read all of your posts.

the way you segue wayed into that might not have been clear is all.

if you want that to work that way, fine, but some people, especially newer players, reading this thread may and do get confused.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by Mustaine
i know that, and i did read all of your posts.

the way you segue wayed into that might not have been clear is all.

if you want that to work that way, fine, but some people, especially newer players, reading this thread may and do get confused.

I'm operating under the assumption that any newer player that is reading this thread discussing the nuances of Fighter rank and score is also motivated enough to have read the game manual wherein lies the definitions of all of these terms. Perhaps I'm being overly presumptuous, if so, I apologize.

Zazen

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Zazen13
Perhaps I'm being overly presumptuous, if so, I apologize.

Zazen

i think you underestimate that power of stupidity