Author Topic: Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?  (Read 2237 times)

Offline BTW

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2005, 03:27:42 PM »
I'm curious - how many people play this game with no desire to improve?  If fact who plays ANY game with no desire to improve?
As zazen states, without some type of stats - how would you know if you got better or the competition got worse?

Offline Delirium

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2005, 01:52:13 AM »
You can look at you stats and see improvement, if that is what you need and it brings you happiness. It is alot like a golf score, it really only measures individual success...

Again, rank is pointless, unless you want to take command of a CV. Worrying about how someone is possibly taking advantage of something that effects nothing else but CV control is even more pointless.

It isn't my intent to flame, I just don't see the big deal if someone wants to use multiple accounts, special plane/tank combinations, or field gun exploting to make their rank so much better than someone elses.

Rank has rarely ever showed the true masters in the MA, take Levi for example...
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Offline SuperDud

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2005, 01:57:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
Rank has rarely ever showed the true masters in the MA, take Levi for example...


Levi is teh suk. He steals all my kills as they fall to earth. I'm the one who got him to where he is. That bum waits for me to do all the work and steals my glory!

And he calls me stupid and yells at me...oh wait all my squaddies do that, carry on
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2005, 01:57:39 AM »
BTW, the stats in AH are a good way to compare you to you, but they aren't necessarily a good way to compare you to others.

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Offline Stone

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2005, 02:50:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium


Again, rank is pointless, unless you want to take command of a CV. Worrying about how someone is possibly taking advantage of something that effects nothing else but CV control is even more pointless.


Yes, but you are missing the point. The point is not that we worry that some one wants a good rank. It is, after all, totaly OK to try to get a good score in a computer game.

The point is that people now take a LA7 or some other fast ride, only to fly to a filed, totaly igonore any airborn enemy, dives down to vulch a few kills, and then die.

I am not saying its wrong, only that its no wonder, as the ranking / score system is built pro fast kills and fast deaths.

So up the typhon and learn to HO and vulch.

Online Shane

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2005, 11:09:13 PM »
I think the K/S stat is often overlooked as a key ingredient. it certainly is the best indicator of an individual's effectiveness (note i didn't say, "skill").

I'll take effective over efficient anyday and on a good day if one is lucky you can have both.

Often by looking at the overall stats that comprise fighter rank you can tell what kind of "style" someone has.
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Offline DipStick

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2005, 11:26:26 PM »
how would you know if you got better or the competition got worse?

You can't tell that from stats.

----

Disagree on the k/s thing Shane. I think k/h is a better indicator of "effectiveness".

Example:

X gets 3 kills per sortie. His sortie last 1 hr. He has a k/s of 3/1 and a k/h of 3/1,

y gets 1 kill per sortie. He has 10 sorties an hour. He has a k/s of 1/1 but a k/h of 10/1,

y is much more "effective" than x because he kills 10 enemies an hour compared to 3 for x.

Online Shane

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2005, 11:44:24 PM »
of course K/T is part of the equation, but for all practical purposes we can tell the players in your example are a timid sky accountant, and a vulch-auger/HO dweeb.  neither of which is to be particularly feared by anyone with a modicum of skill/talent.

i still maintain that the guy with the 3 K/S in your example is more effective because in all likelyhood he also tied up a few who tried to chase him, as well as those he scattered with his apparently hit and run tactics.  

in a perfect world, he'd be landing and along comes that 10 k/h dweeb who proceeds to vulch him and then die in ack.

:D
« Last Edit: August 20, 2005, 11:47:14 PM by Shane »
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Zazen13

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2005, 01:56:51 AM »
As I said in my original post it's really the entire Fighter Rank recipe that determines 'effectiveness'. The K/T and K/S debate Shane and Dip are having brings up a case in point.

K/S: Largely determined by the ammoload and gun type of the plane you are flying. For example a great pilot may have a 2.5 K/S in a 205 but 5.0 K/S in a Niki. It doesn't mean he's less effective in a 205, or less 'good' it just has alot less ammo and not as many cannons. Also gunnery skill greatly increases K/S as you are getting more out of your ammoload. Plane choice has alot to do with K/S

K/T: This is more complex. From a plane perspective a plane that climbs great, is fast, and fights best low, La7 for example, will have a great K/T comparatively. From the pilot perspective base defense and fighting from and to CV's greatly enhance K/T. On the other hand hunting bombers seriously hurts your K/T. Plane choice and engagement type selection have alot to do with K/T.

There are so many factors that go into each sub-stat it's impossible to say which, if any, determines 'effectiveness'. Some say Hit %, some say K/T and some say K/S. I say fighter rank is actually a pretty good 'overall' indicator of 'effectiveness' as the sub-stats themselves are so interdependant and in several cases mutually exclusive. Also, plane and/or engagement choice can distort one or more sub-stats significantly making comparing one person's stats to another's dangerously presumptuous as Levi mentioned. Therefore, the only real way to measure 'effectiveness', if that is even possible, is to combine them as as Fighter Rank does.

Anytime someone asks me how to get good rank, I sum it up like this. Perform some rather dull and annoying chores for bomber, attack and vehicle and kick alot of arse in a fighter. There is no real way, other than perhaps exclusively vulching to obtain a sub-100 fighter rank other than kicking alot of ass. To a small extent you can substitute some bellybutton kicking by just flying alot, but that only gets you so far. In the end Fighter Rank is either ALOT of vulching or alot of bellybutton kicking or some healthy combination of the two. Some methods of kicking bellybutton may be good for your K/S some methods for your Hit %, K/D or K/T. But, if you have a good fighter rank (sub-100), which factors in all of these things combined, you indeed kicked some bellybutton (and/or vulched alot).


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« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 03:09:44 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Steve

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2005, 02:38:25 AM »
Quote
Shane is a textbook example of this. He'll take his La7, fly with some E directly into a horde, flail around killing perhaps 3 or 4 of them in short order before finally his E is depleted and he gets chased down and killed.


You left out the part where Shane says "You slobberdonkeys are pretty good 5 on 1" as if it is the other guys' faults that shane got low and slow and thus caught.  This is my favorite part.
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Offline Steve

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« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2005, 02:40:47 AM »
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BTW, the stats in AH are a good way to compare you to you, but they aren't necessarily a good way to compare you to others.


Agreed. This prespective seems to make the most use of the stats.

I look at the top fighter ranks and don't really consider these guys to be among the best sticks in the arena*... I'm sure many have the same conception.


* no offense to the score potatos.
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Offline Zazen13

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« Reply #71 on: August 21, 2005, 03:15:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Agreed. This prespective seems to make the most use of the stats.

I look at the top fighter ranks and don't really consider these guys to be among the best sticks in the arena*... I'm sure many have the same conception.


* no offense to the score potatos.


I don't agree totally with that. I go over stats monthly, and I film premier pilots religiously. I have a good idea who's deliberately massaging their fighter rank and who's not. I also know who the genuine good sticks are and those who just vulch to 'appear' good. I have seen too many examples of people who do not vulch regularly, who do not give one rat's bellybutton about their fighter rank, but ALWAYS rank very highly just by virtue of how much bellybutton they kick. The only exception I have found to really good sticks not ranking highly are those who, for whatever reason, do not fly very much in a given camp. The only reason they do not rank highly is their points are too low from too few kills (damage).

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Offline Steve

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« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2005, 02:53:03 PM »
Quote
don't agree totally with that  blah blah blah  me me me me me


I stated my opinion, I'm not going to listen to you tell me it's wrong, nor am I going to debate whether yours is.  Out.
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Offline bj229r

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #73 on: August 21, 2005, 03:04:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DipStick


Example:

X gets 3 kills per sortie. His sortie last 1 hr. He has a k/s of 3/1 and a k/h of 3/1,

y gets 1 kill per sortie. He has 10 sorties an hour. He has a k/s of 1/1 but a k/h of 10/1,

y is much more "effective" than x because he kills 10 enemies an hour compared to 3 for x.


Dipstick is right, and I think there's somethin fundamentally wrong with that;

(and I don't need stats to know I'M not improving:rolleyes: )
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Offline tactic

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Is the rank system pro LA7, vulch & camp ?
« Reply #74 on: August 21, 2005, 03:05:20 PM »
The One,  well lets go with two things  good  Rank does for you is...  You can look at it and impress yourself, then say to yourself,  Man my rank is good  :p,      The other is..... you can take command of a CV from someone that ranks lower then you. Go from country to country being the CV boss!  hehe  :eek:   ahem....  

besides......

  I always felt so bad after a good vulch, I'd auger just to teach myself a lesson! not to receive full points and perks, no name in lights!  as i'm going toward the ground I'm telling myself, "I'm not worthy,I'm not worthy"....  teehee

   air to air "I land'm",   air to ground  "I smash in the ground"    Thats my motto.  lmao!

If I bomb a base that had no defenders, I bail right after just so I do not receive the full amount of perks and points,  there again I do it just to teach me another lesson!    Milk'n is for dairy farmers.  thats my motto!  LOL!   Everyone has grabbed a udder here and there...

Do killshooters count as a kill and death?  if so, do that all month and you should be even 1 to 1 ratio,  it would be a way to get a kill everytime you up.  keep that k/d , k/s, k/k, k/c and the sunshine band stats even.  

Only stats missing  are   w/k ,  w/d , w/h , w/a,  bs/bs <--- probabley would be the easier ones to figure out.      lmao.  :p