Author Topic: Bombers Lazers! (Read 2239 times)

Sketch · « **on:** August 13, 2005, 05:25:23 AM »

Change those guns around, make it all of them aren't shooting at the same time. It turns .303's into 20mm! If you have set of Buffs up and didn't bring a gunner, that is your fault. If not, the gun they are in should be the only one firing so it doesn't turn a 2x 50cal into a 6x with the top 6 firing away also! Next thing you know you have 12-18 guns all shooting at you......

SMIDSY · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2005, 05:45:26 AM »

2/3 german fighters shot down durring the war were killed by defencive guns on bombers.

Oleg · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2005, 06:35:10 AM »

If you cannt shot down bomber w/o spraying from his six then it is YOUR fault.

Widewing · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2005, 06:48:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SMIDSY
2/3 german fighters shot down durring the war were killed by defencive guns on bombers.

That's an incorrect statement.

Bomber gunners claimed 9 times as many fighters as were actually shot down. It was fighters that defeated the Luftwaffe, not bomber gunners.

As it is, my experience shows that the defensive guns in AH are WAY over modeled in terms of accuracy. That experience results from shooting many thousands of rounds thru Browning BMGs (.50 caliber).

I believe the effectiveness of these guns is deliberate. If bombers were as defenseless in AH against fighters as they were in against cannon-armed fighters in WWII, no one would fly them.

My regards,

Widewing

Seeker · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2005, 07:22:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing

If bombers were as defenseless in AH against fighters as they were in against cannon-armed fighters in WWII, no one would fly them.

My regards,

Widewing

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

jpeg · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2005, 09:08:06 AM »

HiTech has posted many times that the guns on the bombers are no different than the ones on fighters.

However the guns are being fired from a more stable platform but then again most people don't know or just don't bother to attack bomber formations correctly.

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing

As it is, my experience shows that the defensive guns in AH are WAY over modeled in terms of accuracy. That experience results from shooting many thousands of rounds thru Browning BMGs (.50 caliber).

Rino · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2005, 10:20:57 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by jpeg
HiTech has posted many times that the guns on the bombers are no different than the ones on fighters.

However the guns are being fired from a more stable platform but then again most people don't know or just don't bother to attack bomber formations correctly.

I'd just like to point out that IRL bombers did not cruise at 300
mph. There was also a bit more time to intercept them because
their targets were not 25 miles from their home fields.

Admittedly fighters didn't zoom around at full speed either, but
the cruise speed for heavy bomber formations was closer to
170 than 300.

Sketch · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2005, 12:08:48 PM »

A big thing is being able to fire every gun that has the NME Aircraft in thier sight....

Do the math in a sense just for a set of 17's or 24's....
Tail Gunner X6
Top Turrent 'or' Belly Turrent x6
and if you are to the left or right of the center bomber you have the additional Waist gunner, so bring another 3 at yah...

Overall, your getting 12-15 guns all shooting at you at the same time.... I wish I could have afighter with that many guns!

It is pure overkill being able to use all the guns at once...

frank3 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2005, 12:25:50 PM »

Many people have no idea on how to attack a bomber though, a good example is the ever so popular 'dead-6' attack.
The fighter jock hangs behind the bomber, blazing away. Effect; fighter gets shot down with the bomber sustaining heavy damage.

Widewing · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2005, 01:30:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by jpeg
However the guns are being fired from a more stable platform but then again most people don't know or just don't bother to attack bomber formations correctly.

Ever fire a BMG from a moving platform, at a moving platform? I have. Now, let's have those platforms moving freely in the air. Let's also introduce the effects on gun mount shake (BMGs are recoil operated). I read a study were they estimated that just over 0.2% of the rounds fired by American heavy bomber gunners actually hit enemy fighters. That's just two hits per 1,000 rounds fired.

You can model a lot of things based upon published data. However, until you have actually used the weapons, it is nothing more than a math exercise.

My regards,

Widewing

Sketch · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2005, 01:55:34 PM »

I have used alot of weapons of the military as I am an AMMO Troop in the USAF.... Your right Widewing, if we had the recoil as the 30 & 50 cals have in real life.... not many fighters would be dying from attacking bomber groups....

Oleg · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2005, 02:12:28 PM »

I know nothing about recoil of bomber's guns, but i believe such small percentage of hit was through gunners fired from far distance just to force enemy to break attack or dont give him chance to shoot accurately.
BTW, fighters hits about 1% on average, afaik

Stang · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2005, 04:03:03 PM »

Overmodeled buff guns are my biggest fear for ToD. The LW will get mowed out of the sky if it stays the way it is.

OOZ662 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2005, 08:19:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Oleg
I know nothing about recoil of bomber's guns, but i believe such small percentage of hit was through gunners fired from far distance just to force enemy to break attack or dont give him chance to shoot accurately.
BTW, fighters hits about 1% on average, afaik

Remember that the LW did mainly head-on attacks. There wasn't much time to fire a "warning shot" and have them notice it.

Kev367th · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2005, 09:35:18 AM »

Could counter with how ridiculously easy it is to kill buffs -

a) short burst in wingtip, off it comes.
b) B24 a few hits at wingroot sets it alight.