Wake up America

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Skydancer
I shall repeat ......Tarmac you have a point. But we've dealt with that for many a year. We used to have Irish Catholic Republicans, leaving those explosives in Pubs etc and Blowing us up too. Thay were British Citizens as well you know. Its not that new. We're old hands at terrorism unlike your great nation for whom 911 was a wake up call. We were wide awake long before that!

Don't get the idea that a few Islamic nuts blowing themselves up is causing this nation to implode or segregate or whatever. We're a bit more sensible than that!

Gunslinger. Ok I see what you mean and yes that does happen. Yes its daft and people should be able to speak their mind, but within reason. I don't want the Far right BNP inciting hatred any more than I want Islamic Fundamentalist Immams doing so. I think that the senator guys was wrong realy. I don't think a society of people who speak different languages or have different cultures is a problem. I do think they should be able to speak the native language too though. I do believe that all societys grow and change and that is healthy. What is not healthy is a kind of Mono culture which is what I think this guy is going on about. He basicaly seems to suggest that the US will only be strong if it is a monoculture. I disagree. I think Britain is pretty multicultural and that is actualy helping us become stronger in Europe and have more influence globaly. Plus on a lighter note it has realy improved our diet!

you make some good points and you actually agre with some in the speech.  I disagree with you on the monocultural aspects because I don't beleive that is what he is advocating.  We shouldn't ask immigrants to denounce their formor culture but just the opposite while embracing there new American culture.  THe problem is we are impressing opon poeple that they HAVE to be responsive to other cultures even if it destroys our own.  We are not asking people not to speak there native language but to learn a national one.  That brings people together and gives identity.  I agree that Britian is a very diverse country but I do not beleive that will help you in the long run.  History shows us that with no common bond cultures will clash.

London's Guardian assumes that because ethnic minority and union teachers do not do as well on performance tests administered by local school heads that it must be because of discrimination and racism.

Citing documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, the Guardian says head teachers failed about one in 20 teachers in 2004, a figure that rose to one in 10 among staff who were union officials.

Teachers from the Bangladeshi, black African communities and "Asian other" communities had the lowest success rate of any ethnic group in 2004 at around 80%, the paper says. This, compared with 90% among the Pakistani and Caribbean communities and 95.5% among "white British" teachers.

Greg Robbins, a secretary for the National Association of Schoolmasters and Women Teachers, said the numbers are proof that the performance tests are being used to bully and victimize certain groups.

"I would go as far as to say that some schools in some areas are racist and clearly discriminate against union activists," Robbins said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1541349,00.html?gusrc=rss
 

this is spot on with what the frmr gov. is talking about.

[Skydancer]

OK Lazs.

Think scale. We are a much smaller place keep that in mind. Your states are maybe equivalent to our City boroughs.

We do have neighbourhoods in this very city where I live that are predominantly, Black African Caribean, and yes it can be uncomfortable being a white face there. We do have neighbourhoods where the population is predominantly from the Indian Sub continent and hardly a word of English is heard. We also have neighbourhoods that are mainly white like the one where I work that can be pretty uncomfortable places if you have a brown skin. Thats a fact of life. But in the main we get along pretty well.

I'm not being arrogant ( at least not trying to be ) I do think we make it work pretty well here in the UK. Its not perfect. Never will be. But its not the kind of Ghettoised society other places are. We do pretty well with our mix of peoples. My new neighbours are from behind what was the Iron curtain. Romania and we get along fine. The latest wave of Immigration to the UK I guess.

The mix of people makes for an interesting place. Thats why I live in this City.

[Skydancer]

Gunslinger I agree the race card is overplayed. It does sometimes happen and there have been horrendous examples of overt Racism in instutions in this country. But it is overplayed. Still I don't think our diversity is weakness I think it is ultimately strength.

The US is a nation of immigrants and different cultures. It is not weaker as a result it is stronger. I do think you have a more segregated society though. Or at least it appears that way from the outside. I realise I could be wrong.

Over to you guys I'm off to cook a chicken Balti for dinner!

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Skydancer
Gunslinger I agree the race card is overplayed. It does sometimes happen and there have been horrendous examples of overt Racism in instutions in this country. But it is overplayed. Still I don't think our diversity is weakness I think it is ultimately strength.

The US is a nation of immigrants and different cultures. It is not weaker as a result it is stronger. I do think you have a more segregated society though. Or at least it appears that way from the outside. I realise I could be wrong.

Over to you guys I'm off to cook a chicken Balti for dinner!

overplayed is not the problem.  It's the fact that it is THE tool to enact cultural repression and stagnate free speech itself.  

Frankly I was surprised to learn this guy was a democrat.  His words make him sound like a conservative wich is probably why he's no longer the gov.

[Ripper29]

Originally posted by lazs2
So inform me with some facts skyprancer.... what is your entire england white race ratio?  Not 97%?  then what is it?

We have entire states where whites are becoming a minority and english is becomeing a minor language.

You don't know anthing about here yet you were the one to arrogantly say that it all works in england so why not here?

There are neighborhoods in the U.S. where you couldn't survive the afternoon because you were white.

you are quick to jump on us for intolernace yet I see more intolence for less real reason in your country... minor little spikes in non white population like you have would be ignored or laughed at here.... Jumps like we have would cause you biggots to call in the troops.

I defenitly do not want to be lectuired about tolerance by any euro.... much less a brit.

lazs

I read in the paper this morning that in Texas the non whites represent over 50% of the population.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Ripper29
I read in the paper this morning that in Texas the non whites represent over 50% of the population.

yup and guess what.  They are now called the "Majority-minority".  To some, using common sense, it would seem that being the "majority" population in a state would entail they could no longer claim minority/victom status.  But, alas, we've taught these people to be victoms and that victoms are inferior and all there problems are because they are oppressed by whitey the majority.

[Ripper29]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
yup and guess what.  They are now called the "Majority-minority".  To some, using common sense, it would seem that being the "majority" population in a state would entail they could no longer claim minority/victom status.  But, alas, we've taught these people to be victoms and that victoms are inferior and all there problems are because they are oppressed by whitey the majority.

Well I would assume that the whites are still the largest group...in the non white group your going to have blacks, mexicans  and native indians (combined they are a larger group).

[Silat]

Originally posted by Ripper29
I read in the paper this morning that in Texas the non whites represent over 50% of the population.

Texas becomes fourth state to have non-white majority population
08/10/2005 @ 6:03 pm
Texas has become the fourth state to have a non-white majority population,
the U.S. Census Bureau said Thursday, a trend driven by a surging number of
Hispanics moving to the state, the AP's Alicia Caldwell is set to report
late Wednesday night for Thursday newspapers. Excerpts follow...

#
According to the population estimates based on the 2000 Census, about 50.2
percent of Texans are now minorities. In the 2000 Census, minorities made up
about 47 percent of the population in the second-largest state.

Texas joins California, New Mexico and Hawaii as states with
majority-minority populations - with Hispanics the largest group in every
state but Hawaii, where it is Asian-Americans.

Five other states - Maryland, Mississippi, Georgia, New York and Arizona -
aren't far behind, with about 40 percent minorities.

Public policy analysts said these states and the country as a whole need to
bring minority education and professional achievement to the levels of
whites. Otherwise, these areas risk becoming poorer and less competitive.

[1K3]

It would be nice if the FED GOV does something to curb illegal immigration


but in return...


(I wish...) I want the I.N.S. would speed up the "Green Card" process (Hispanics and somtimes us Filipinos call it "papelles") to those who entred US legitimately! (like me:)). In California it took 6 years foe me and my family to get the greencard and IMO that wait is too long! That Green Card is special for us because it helped my older sister to get in Mt. St. Marry's College in L.A. (Girls-only Catholic University). She had the full schollarship, but not teh green card. IMO The Green Card elevatged us to high middle class status.

PS. We're not the "typical immagrants" who come tpo USA in your point of view;) In the Philippines, English is the 2nd OFFICIAL LANGUAGE and most Filipinos who come here (mostly with high-skilled proffesional backgrounds) knows how to read, write, and speak english. My "accent" is still present

I have to wait for another ~4 to 6 years to be a USA citizen... and teh time to wait is toooo long!:D I've been "Americanised" loong before I stepped outside of L..A.X.!:D

[Sparks]

SkyDancer you're just plain wrong.  Multiculturalism working in UK ROFLMAO !!!!!  If you see the loss of national indentity, the creeping encroachment of Islam into our society, the forced acceptance of cultural behaviours that were previously unacceptable,  the law for one and diferrent law for another as multiculturalism working then it is a sad day for the UK.

Immigration to the USA worked because of INTEGRATION not multiculturalism - the fact that when you emmigrated you gave up your old life and took up American life. That is the unity factor. Perhaps that ex congressman will help wake up the US to the mistakes of others.

I am in Southern Claifornia now on business and it is like two countries in one - as much Mexican / south American as English speaking.  A week ago I was in the Pacific NW.  In Seattle I knew I was in the US - different people of all parts of the world but all American.  Here in LA - I could be anywhere.

I look at my home town and cannot see the place I grew up. A town now with over 30% of the population immigrant or of immigrant family. I walk the main town street and struggle to hear english spoken - Urdu, Russian, Turkish, Arabic, Baltic languages .......... no english - and yes I mean I can go some distance and hear NO english.  The housing once for the workers of local engineering companies now Asian ghettos with two huge Mosques towering over them.  The school I went to and which now when my daughter went to it the white students feel a threatened minority and the school board had to create exam entry routes to keep some white contingent.

I hate what is happenning to my home town and my country - it no longer feels like home.  I am white, middle class and middle aged and I am sick and tired of seeing my home transformed into some multicultural hell and being told I am rascist if I don't agree with it - that the experiment is working. I am not alone, perhaps Skydancer you should get out and talk to people more.

Integration has worked in the past in the UK - Indian asians, Polish, Italians - all came looking for a new life and took on Britain as a home lock stock and barrel.  Those people took on the country and nationality and ADDED to it.  Multiculturalism is taking the passport and taking away any parts of the nation you don't agree with.

Do I hate people of other nations and cultures - absolutely not.

Will I fight people who wish to impose their culture and beliefs on my country - yes.

I think that is the sentiment of the speech above.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Sparks
SkyDancer you're just plain wrong.  Multiculturalism working in UK ROFLMAO !!!!!  If you see the loss of national indentity, the creeping encroachment of Islam into our society, the forced acceptance of cultural behaviours that were previously unacceptable,  the law for one and diferrent law for another as multiculturalism working then it is a sad day for the UK.

Immigration to the USA worked because of INTEGRATION not multiculturalism - the fact that when you emmigrated you gave up your old life and took up American life. That is the unity factor. Perhaps that ex congressman will help wake up the US to the mistakes of others.

I am in Southern Claifornia now on business and it is like two countries in one - as much Mexican / south American as English speaking.  A week ago I was in the Pacific NW.  In Seattle I knew I was in the US - different people of all parts of the world but all American.  Here in LA - I could be anywhere.

I look at my home town and cannot see the place I grew up. A town now with over 30% of the population immigrant or of immigrant family. I walk the main town street and struggle to hear english spoken - Urdu, Russian, Turkish, Arabic, Baltic languages .......... no english - and yes I mean I can go some distance and hear NO english.  The housing once for the workers of local engineering companies now Asian ghettos with two huge Mosques towering over them.  The school I went to and which now when my daughter went to it the white students feel a threatened minority and the school board had to create exam entry routes to keep some white contingent.

I hate what is happenning to my home town and my country - it no longer feels like home.  I am white, middle class and middle aged and I am sick and tired of seeing my home transformed into some multicultural hell and being told I am rascist if I don't agree with it - that the experiment is working. I am not alone, perhaps Skydancer you should get out and talk to people more.

Integration has worked in the past in the UK - Indian asians, Polish, Italians - all came looking for a new life and took on Britain as a home lock stock and barrel.  Those people took on the country and nationality and ADDED to it.  Multiculturalism is taking the passport and taking away any parts of the nation you don't agree with.

Do I hate people of other nations and cultures - absolutely not.

Will I fight people who wish to impose their culture and beliefs on my country - yes.

I think that is the sentiment of the speech above.

well said.     but again this isn't a UK is bad thread at all.  The same thing that happens in the UK happens in the US as well.

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Skydancer
So how come its working here! I don't see a destroyed Britain. Infact we are about the strongest nation in Europe economicaly and politicaly.

I see a destroyed United Kingdom.

Economicaly strong? As strong as Kuwait? We produce more oil.

Politicaly Strong? Being Bush's poodle makes us strong? Could we repeat the Falklands today?

And in the birthplace of Shakespeare there's more Urdu spoken than English.

[Skydancer]

Oh dear.

Actualy I do get out and speak to a lot of people. Many of them young and definately our future. I'm a youth worker up here in Birmingham. Yes there are problems. Yes "multiculturalism " as some see it does not work. But the reality is the UK population is always changing. New cultures languages etc. It has been right throughout history. This country has never had a static "identity" thats what makes us Great Britain! So its no good burying your head in the sand and wishing it away or trying to turn back the clock. You have to learn to get on with it and them. Yes Blair is stupid for being Bush's poodle over Iraq, but we are much stronger than many parts of Europe and I would say carry more influence on the international stage. We are never going to be a great empire again. Well not for a bit anyhow. And we are never going to be a homogenous nation though I doubt we ever were realy.

Actualy Sparks I kind of feel a bit sorry for you. The England you want has gone. Face up to the new England and you might find some good stuff about it! Cheer up old chap. Not all Moslems are bombers or invaders, and they do know how to make a good curry!

[XrightyX]

Originally posted by Skydancer
We are a nation who invented Democracy!

Thought the Greeks did that?

Abolished Slavery!

Started it too, with the Portugese, Spanish, Dutch and French.

Fought to world wars to defeat Millitarism and Facism!

Which were started as a result of the arms race/Empire clash between France, Germany, Britain, Russia...

Not saying we're any better, just don't go tootin' your own horn...

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by XrightyX
Thought the Greeks did that?
 
Started it too, with the Portugese, Spanish, Dutch and French.
 
Which were started as a result of the arms race/Empire clash between France, Germany, Britain, Russia...

Not saying we're any better, just don't go tootin' your own horn...

some people just don't get it do they.