Author Topic: Just Talk to Her Already  (Read 3691 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #120 on: August 16, 2005, 08:20:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Was there a group of anti-war protesters nearby? Were you shooting your gun to threaten them? Or was it dove season where you were too :rolleyes:


Dream on. IF he'd broken a law, he'd have been arrested. He didn't. Live with it.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2005, 08:25:19 PM »
Raider,

Untill he is found guilty before a jury of his peers, he is presumed innocent. Even if he gets remanded to the custody of the local district while a decision is made to prosicute him or not. Have you already decided his guilt and we should all conceed to your Omniscience?

If we prosicuted our citizens by the concept "his  intention is so obvious and so is his guilt" then we might as well issue you and like minded citizens ideological warrents for prejudice along with a gun and set you forth as judge/jury/executioner and call all of our freinds to warn them their justice is coming.

Personally I think Bush owes his neighbors something because of all the nutbugers that have no respect for the communities privacy being ravaged by a constant parade of human Ding Dongs and HoHo's. Bush should of bought a more secluded ranch. I voted for him, but I'd be pissed at Bush for 8 years of nutburgers raising crap around my neighborhood. I think the citizens of Crawford may be reaching the last strand in their rope with the nutberger parade........I think we all should have a bit more respect for the members of that community and their marginalised privacy.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Wolf14

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2005, 08:33:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Was there a group of anti-war protesters nearby? Were you shooting your gun to threaten them? Or was it dove season where you were too :rolleyes:




Naw there werent no anit-war protesters, but there was the fella I was thinkin of shootin because he kept throwin broken clay pigeons at me while I was trying to shoot the ones being thrown.


Funny thing was an officer did show up, asked if some cows that were out belonged to the onwer of the property, and then he shot a few pigeons himself. He left and we were shaking our heads thinkin what a day it was when a cop shows up and shoots with ya and then drives away.

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2005, 08:45:01 PM »
Don't you guys know?  This is a liberal tactic.  Cry fowl that somone committed a crime and broke the law when no charges and sometimes no investigations exist.  Codemn them in public and if you say it loud and long enough the charges magicly become a matter of fact instead of speculation.

when no one listens to them all they have to do is say it's because of Bush that no law was broken....errr no charges were filed.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2005, 08:47:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
How bout this

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlo/76R/billtext/HB00786H.HTM

H.B. No. 786

 1-2   relating to displaying a deadly weapon in order to hinder an
 1-3     official proceeding or prevent or disrupt a lawful meeting,
 1-4     gathering, or procession; providing penalties.

Sec. 42.05.  DISRUPTING MEETING OR PROCESSION.  (a)  A person
2-18     commits an offense if, with intent to prevent or disrupt a 2-19     lawful  meeting, procession, or gathering, he
2-20     obstructs or interferes with the meeting, procession, or gathering by:
2-21                 (1)  physical action or verbal utterance; or
2-22                 (2)  display of a deadly weapon in plain view.

He definitely was attempting to dirupt the anti-war protest and he definitely used physical action (firing of this gun in the air).

Why should the protesters feel threatened by him? What gives him that right? People are allowed to assemble without being harrassed(threatened) by someone shooting off a gun to intimidate them. You buy his "getting ready for dove season"? How many people shoot a fire-arm 1 time to get it ready for the season? This guy is reckless with fire-arms and he proved it.


this is based on your all knowing first hand knowledge I'm assuming?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 08:56:24 PM by Gunslinger »

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2005, 08:58:29 PM »
Well, having read this thread from top to bottom, only one thought comes to mind...

...I'd like that 20 minutes of my life back, please.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #126 on: August 16, 2005, 09:31:53 PM »
Say whatever about the gunshot. Its legality or otherwise.

At its core, it threatened people's lives. The very act itself was meant to do nothing other than threaten people's lives. As if to say - "this is just a warning, I've got a gun, and you might get killed."

So get all caught up in the legal defense of it all you want, but holy smokes - this is the kind of wingnut that you do not want as a neighbor.

The defense of this kind of thing typifies the dance of those coming out against Sheehan, supporting this war, and supporting this President. It has become increasingly very shaky ground... such that the defenders are becoming unwitting participants in the dance craze that will soon be sweeping the nation;  the 'Tectonic.'

Erhm... that is unless you subscribe to the idea that would have Mattlage threatening people with his gun as if to say "If you keep it up, there will be even more loud noises!" Go ahead, try and make that argument to me.

No - he was threatening to kill people, and that is the only interpretation of this incident that comes even close to getting to the root of it. Lawful or not.

Is it suprising that someone would do this? Considering the location and the divided not united nature of things... absolutely not. Is it suprising that some here would tango with it? Yeah  - man it still does.

Sheehan, on the other hand, is a partisan political war protester who hates this war and who hates Bush for impaling his country on it. It is sparkling Windexy crystal clear.

But leave it to some folks to get the whole entire thing just so gawdamned messed up. Don't attack her stance. Just attack her.

It's base emotion stuff that the Right 'gets'.... responds to.... which is exactly the kind of thing that gets them elected. And it's the entire explanation of their reaction to her and their handling of this situation. Huge suprise there.

As for Bush's role? Give me a single example of him ever admitting a mistake. It's a running joke. I've made possibly, oh, several thousand mistakes in what, the last week alone? He'd have us believe he's never made one in the last 5 years. But we already know that. Why it's pertinent here is because it is his driving psychology in all of this.  For him to talk with her now, at this late date, would constitute an admission of error. Folks - this isn't going to happen.

At this point, a Bush-Sheehan meeting takes on all the unlikely  newsworthy importance of a Rabin/Arafat peace deal or a Jackson trial verdict. "We're breaking away live now to go to Crawford, where..."

[flashbulbs go off like strobe lights, microphones jam the frame....]

Imagine that....

And Sheehan... she will go to Washington to camp there when Bush goes back to work. And she will remain there for the next three and a half years. And her cause will grow -exponentially.

And it will grow because finally, despite the politician's and the media's shocking reluctance to look at the Iraq war with anything even approaching a critical, objective eye, there will be this lone woman named Sheehan who said, simply, this is a bunch of crap.

It is something that folks frankly aren't hearing all that much. When they do, and they are, it just... resonates...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 10:36:23 PM by Nash »

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #127 on: August 16, 2005, 09:38:42 PM »
"And her cause will grow -exponentially."


I doubt it. The Roberts confirmation fight is coming up. Iraqi Constitution/Elections. There'll be some disaster to occupy the newsies.

She can camp as long as she wants but I don't think she's the beginning of a VietNam war-type Peace movement.

We'll see I guess.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #128 on: August 16, 2005, 09:46:34 PM »
Yup.

Offline Raider179

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #129 on: August 16, 2005, 09:59:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
this is based on your all knowing first hand knowledge I'm assuming?


I saw him interviewed. Pretty easy to understand if you saw it.

Offline mauser

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #130 on: August 16, 2005, 10:48:05 PM »
For a "fair and balanced" view of parents who've lost children in this war, you need to see a counter-article.  Here is an article about Mrs. Natalie Healy.  She is the mother of Senior Chief Daniel Healy, who was killed in action in Afghanistan when the MH-47 he and fellow SEALs and 160th SOAR members was shot down.  

From what I've gathered on the opinions of mil bloggers and guys who have gone for a tour and come back, it is imperative that we do not waiver at home.  If you really want to see morale drop in the units that are doing the fighting, then go ahead and pull them out before the job is done.  THEN it will seem like a waste of all the effort put in.  

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=59189

Mother of fallen SEAL says she still supports the war
By SCOTT BROOKS
Union Leader Staff
Merchants Automotive Group

Natalie Healy made a decision this summer after losing her son in war-torn Afghanistan.

"I can't go to those mountains and climb them and I can't shoot a gun," she said. "But I can do everything I can to make sure we stay the course, and if that means speaking out, then that's what I want to do."

Less than two months after the death of her son, Navy SEAL Senior Chief Petty Officer Daniel Healy, the Exeter mother and small business owner is following through on her word.


Natalie Healy of Exeter is shown with her son, Navy SEAL Senior Chief Petty Officer Daniel Healy, at his wedding. (COURTESY PHOTO)
Healy is making her feelings known in response to the nation's interest in a California mother who has camped outside President Bush's Texas ranch to protest the war in Iraq. Cindy Sheehan's 24-year-old son was killed in Iraq last year.

Healy said she initially sympathized with the grief-stricken mom. Now, however, as Sheehan's message continues to fill the airwaves, Healy said she fears a backlash against the war on terrorism.

"It's sort of like a tidal wave," Healy said. "And it's gaining and gaining and gaining. And I'm not sure what will stop it, to tell you the truth.

"My big concern is that the enemy will use Cindy Sheehan to their benefit. They will point to her and say, 'See? See how this American is calling the President a murderer? See how they're going to start weakening from within?'"

Healy said she was booked to speak on MSNBC's "Hardball" with Chris Matthews last night. The interview got bumped just a few hours before the show, she said.

But Healy said spreading her voice to support the war effort is her "new mission in life."

"I'm hoping, by having another mother who's lost a son speaking out loudly and strongly, that the troops will hear it and be heartened by it," she said. "Because we all know how they're always shocked when they get home and they find out what has been reported."

Several national polls show that a majority of Americans now consider the decision to invade Iraq a mistake. Healy herself said she initially had doubts about the war. She is now convinced the United States cannot leave Iraq just yet.

"The fact of the matter is, at this stage in the game, we're over there," she said. "We have to complete the mission."

Healy said she doubted Sheehan's son, Casey, would support his mother's mission.

Rather, she said, "I think my son would be happy that I was trying to remind people that we have to stay the course. We have to, without a doubt. And I know he'd be saying, 'OK, mom. Good. Good, mom.'"

Healy recognized the public's opinion of the Iraqi conflict is not the same as its opinion of the war in Afghanistan, where her son died June 28. Daniel Healy, a 36-year-old father of four, was one of 16 soldiers killed when insurgents shot down their helicopter.

But Healy said the two conflicts are part of the same war on terrorism, and it's a war the U.S. must continue to fight.

"I think fighting for freedom in Iraq and fighting for freedom in Afghanistan is one and the same," she said.

Healy is hopeful that the public will hear both sides in the debate over pulling U.S. troops from Iraq. It would be harmful, she said, if Sheehan's voice carried the day.

"I just don't want it to be the only story," Healy said. "I want the other voices to be heard so that the young men that fought with my son — that were broken-hearted from all their buddies getting killed — will know somebody else is speaking out for them. And maybe they won't be heard as much as Cindy Sheehan, but there's somebody trying, anyway."
« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 10:53:03 PM by mauser »

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #131 on: August 16, 2005, 10:52:44 PM »
Quote
And she should get to have that opinion without a wall of hatred being heaped on her by the right wing press.

When did mindless hatred for political gain become an American value? Why be so proud of and make excuses for it?

So - Sakai


All that we are promised  by the Constitution in that regard is that we have the right to freedom of expression and speech.

That doesn't mean people are forced to love you for it.  People have the right to hold you in contempt for your opinions, or hate you for them.  

Your objection to the reaction against this woman is silly.  Its as if you are saying that you object because people don't agree with her.

Quote
When did mindless hatred for political gain become an American value? Why be so proud of and make excuses for it?


I don't know what to make of this these questions.  It is silly to karp because people may disagree with Cindy.  People are free to vigorously express themselves and others are free to vigorously reject those opinions if they wish.  There is nothing to make excuses for.

Past that, you are blinded to the fact that both factions behave the same way.  The hypebole is off the scale, and you are right in there doing your share of it, bud.  Read over your first post.
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #132 on: August 16, 2005, 10:56:01 PM »
Damn nash did your stove break again?  Your panties are awfully bunched up tonight.

Havn't you ever been to texas?  When we are talking about neighbors here we arent talking about a house 10 ft from the other we are talking about "country miles" down the road.  The guy has a right to shoot on his property and fireing of a shotgun even if in protest is just a texas way of turning your music/TV up loud to piss somone off.  

Raider I saw and interview too.  I have yet to read were this guy said was attempting to disrupt the anti-war protest

what gives him the right?

I will tell you the 2nd amendment gives him the right.  In addition he OWNS the land he's firing on.  He could shoot clay pidgeons all day long if he felt like it.  It's HIS land.  As long as he doesn't shoot over any roads he isn't breaking any laws.

Now now I know you are a legal expert in the state of Texas and all and your hourly visit to Moveon.org probably prompted you to post some law that might be twisted and spinned enough to make this guy guilty without any type of evidenct trial or jury but maybe you could post the interview were he said he ment to scare the protesters and I might give the guy a shame shame.

Offline navajoboy

  • Probation
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 849
      • http://www.uknightedstates.net
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #133 on: August 16, 2005, 11:08:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
"Bring the boys back home.
Bring the boys back home.
Don’t leave the children on their own, no, no.
Bring the boys back home."

Pink Floyd 1979.

And thats all there is to it.

Its a mess and a foreign affairs blunder of the highest order deserving a chapter in



The woman may be going about it the wrong way I don't realy know. But she lost her son to some idiot foreign policy dreamed up by a right wing religious nutjob thats killed thousands destroyed a country and made global terrorism worse!!! Realy it beggars belief.


excellent!!! i only say this cause we went to war because of WMD. WMD!!!

oh and the gun thing... we once had private property. and we once shot guns because of 'intruders'.. but the problem was.. we werent citizens of the country, that would have given use the protection of private property.  but now intruders beware...  im a citizen..  

'home land security since 1492' - nativez
Stovpipe aka Navajo
Uknighted 357th FG - JG26
-+= Foreign Relations Minister =+-
http://www.uknightedstates.net

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Just Talk to Her Already
« Reply #134 on: August 16, 2005, 11:18:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Damn nash....

Havn't you ever been to texas?... The guy has a right to shoot on his property and fireing of a shotgun even if in protest is just a texas way of turning your music/TV up loud to piss somone off.  


« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 11:22:13 PM by Nash »