Author Topic: Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap  (Read 1892 times)

Offline detch01

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2005, 02:27:28 PM »
Mars01 - you seem to think you have a pretty good handle on what does and what doesn't constitute a good terrain. Pony up and show us - build one.
Quote
originally posted by Zazen13
Isn't it the ONLY map to be permanently removed from the rotation? That would explain why it's the most requested to be returned, it's the only one.
:eek: :rolleyes:

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Offline Skuzzy

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2005, 02:29:22 PM »
Nope Zazen.  It was being requested long before the other terrains were converted.
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Offline Delirium

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2005, 02:42:52 PM »
This map (Frac) encourages fights like an Amish Minister!

With that off my chest, I agree with Mars completely... the distance between fields is the #1 problem with it.
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Offline mojo55

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2005, 02:43:50 PM »
So when will pizza be here....?

Offline Shamus

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2005, 02:49:30 PM »
The best overall game play map was Pizza

You could find big furballs, do sneaky steals, great gv fights and could always find 1v1's if that was your mood.

I will say the yellow was tuff on the eye's

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Offline Zazen13

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2005, 02:58:00 PM »
One thing generally about the HUGE maps. It isn't necessarily bad for there to be 200-300+ bases...so long as the arena population is proportionally high. Trinity map for example might be great if we averaged 300-500 people in the arena and peaked at 600-900+ people during prime-time. I am sure that is what HTC is hoping for for the future and these maps were designed with the hopefull future of AH II in mind.

The problem is, while we have these forward-looking maps and insufficient population to play on them gameplay suffers and the game actually grows slower than it might have if we remained on the smaller maps where there is alot more action for the newer players to immerse themselves in. Your average new player wants to furball, not milkrun or sit for hours spawncamping GV's. Alot of furballs and fights in general is the appeal of AH, its strength and what sets it apart from its competition (IL2 currently) is allowing hundreds of people to play and fight against each other simultaneously. HUGE maps too large for the current population take away from AH's one big strength vs. it's competition and its great appeal to new players. Appealing to new players is the only way for AH to grow.

Zazen
« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 03:03:52 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
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Offline LYNX

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2005, 03:07:52 PM »
3yrs of AH and i could never understand the "I hate this map" quote...I do now.  Frac3 I  have to change Icon colours.  That bloody great big, depending how zoomed in u r, red line is a pain.  The clip map colour is a lighter shade to actual terrain and the GV way points can blend in.  As for 2 cv's in a pond.... what else did the Romans do for us.

Sorry to the guy that spent time and energy on it.  You have my utter respect for having a go.  It's way more than i could do. I do like the off field town concept just a shame alot of players STILL don't get it

As for pizza map I thought it was a great map apart from the Gv way points that didn't spawn u to the right place and some of the Gv rocky terrain was a pain.  Wish someone, other than me, could re-do-it.

Offline straffo

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2005, 03:40:39 PM »
This map is a pain because like "Eternity" ther is no fight and very long distances !

I pay to have fun not to look like a Microsoft Airliner Pilot wanabe doing miles of navigation.

one word : boring.

Offline Morpheus

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2005, 03:57:58 PM »
This map truely blows. End of story.

I thought at the start that having the towns placed 10-15 miles away from a base would be a good idea and bring some sort of a new tactic of base taking into the game. Not really though.

The bases are set, in a way that looks like where ever the hell they felt like putting them. Some here, some there, the one WAAY out in the middle of no mans land.

The map is ok if you have 900 players on. But then HTC's servers wont be Ok when they're on fire from the loads.

to the map makers. I know how hard it is to make a map. I've done a few, never submited them. This one shouldnt have been let through the door though.
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Offline AKFokerFoder+

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2005, 04:09:30 PM »
I must put in my $.02 :)

Certainly this map is at the bottom of my list of the maps.  Too long a flight to find a fight is at best boring.

I would vote that we put some kind of limit on how long this map stays  Like say only 24 hours before an automatic reset?

It has some playability to it.  But I think the overall reason I play in the MA is to find fights, and find them in a reasonable amount of time.  I ran out of fuel twice last night because by the time I finally found a fight, and stayed for a kill, I didn't have enough fuel to RTB.  And that was in a 109F4, 75% fuel and drop tanks.  I crashed once trying to ditch.  The other time I found a road to ditch on.  The terrain seems way to rough to find a place to ditch without kee-rashing and dying.

Still, until we get more maps, we should keep this one for the sake of variety, but maybe not until someone can get a reset.

Offline fuzeman

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2005, 04:29:38 PM »
For the record, I love Frac3.
I loved Pizza.
I love every map currently in the rotation.
I loved every map that we used previosly and has been removed from the rotation.
I love every map that is or ever will be made for this game in the future.
No map = can't play, so I love maps.
Don't let the map play you, play the map.
Guess what, we have 4+ arenas and the maps are different in each one :D
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline IownU

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2005, 04:32:55 PM »
not just the bases damn take for ever to get to your town to defend it noe missions to our towns sux cause you cant get there fast enough to defend it
« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 04:36:01 PM by IownU »

Offline Zazen13

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2005, 04:45:58 PM »
There are a few things that make AH appealing or less so to newer players and fighter jocks. Maps can and do make these things more or less likely to develop.

1) Flight times to the fight.
2) Intensity of the fight determined by two things.
a) Distance of the fields from one another.
b) Strategic import of the base (altitude, proximity to other bases, proximity to critical strategic targets like HQ)
3) The number and location of ports and CV TG's. The more the better as far as I am concerned. On certain maps the only good fights occur during the brief time a CV stays alive near an enemy base.
4) Vbases in relation to airbases. On some maps there's a 1 to 1 ratio, that's far too much focus on vehicles.

So, there are a few factors that make maps less appealing, therefore more boring to fighter jocks and newer players which rely on frequency and intensity of air to air fights and furballs for their enjoyment.

1) Relatively long distances between airfields (not airfields and vbases).
2) Bases all being at sea level. Higher altitude bases add strategic value.
3) Too few CV TG's for the land/sea area.
4) Too many Vbases and V spawns.

Obviously, some maps seem to have all the negative aspects and none or few of the positive aspects. Maps do affect gameplay very profoundly. Maps are what bring the furballer and the land-grabber hurtling at each other or in totally opposite directions. When the Furballer, GV'er and Land-grabber are all pulling in a myriad a directions because of map design that map becomes very boring and detrimental for gameplay. Some maps bring furballer/GV'er/land-grabber together in common goals for their  different reasons, that makes for a very exciting and action packed map. Small maps are good at this because with only 60-75 fields relatively close together and/or alot of CV TG's per area common objectives for the 3 playstyles abound.

Pizza map was a great example of a map that did not bring the 3 play-types together. Furballers were pretty much left out unless a CV was close to a coastal base or one team was near another's HQ. Milkrunners had an infinite number of strats to milkrun and GV'ers had a virtually hermetically sealed off GV war. Pizza map was particularly appealing to GV'ers because, for the most part, they could just play with other GV'ers and not have to worry about aircraft, it was like one gigantic inter-connected 'tank-town' (ie: the canyon vbases and the rim vbases). This eipitomizes what makes a map boring for the majority of us. That is a map that takes the various playstyles and by its very deisgn hurtles them in diamterically opposed directions.
 

Zazen
« Last Edit: August 16, 2005, 04:59:46 PM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
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Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline cobia38

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2005, 05:20:06 PM »
the best thing about pizza map that all others lack is the fronts.
  all other maps each side has only two fronts wich leads to boreing game play,on pizza however you have three (slices ) in each slice you have three country,s bordering each other. this makes more opertunitys for spread out game play. if you took all the big maps and reworked them into the same style it would liven them up drasticly    
               my .02 cents :cool:


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Offline Zazen13

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Didn't we learn anything from PizzaCrap
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2005, 05:41:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by cobia38
the best thing about pizza map that all others lack is the fronts.
  all other maps each side has only two fronts wich leads to boreing game play,on pizza however you have three (slices ) in each slice you have three country,s bordering each other. this makes more opertunitys for spread out game play. if you took all the big maps and reworked them into the same style it would liven them up drasticly    
               my .02 cents :cool:


Have you looked at every large map fully zoomed out? They all have pie slice shapes with two fronts. Look at Trinity fully zoomed it, Pizza slices...

Zazen
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc